Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!feed.cgocable.net!isdnet!noos!not-for-mail From: silverkey@silverkey.chaosmagic.com (rem) Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.occult.methods Subject: Re: Randolph, Naglowska, North Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:39:14 GMT Organization: Service Usenet NoosNet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3b8df95b.1441426@news.cybercable.fr> References: <1f3aa792.0108270605.7f350ce8@posting.google.com> <20010827.114659.968338082.2280@my-deja.com> <3b8a758c.417428961@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3B8A8FF4.A45A135B@envirometrics.com> <3b8aa35c.429159211@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <1f3aa792.0108271745.28cf4103@posting.google.com> <3B8B2DBB.6FCB@luckymojo.com> <1f3aa792.0108281417.220907b1@posting.google.com> <3B8C26FB.1FC9@luckymojo.com> <1f3aa792.0108282115.3a680ab8@posting.google.com> <3b8c8aa7.553925119@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3B8C99F9.5545@luckymojo.com> <3B8DEC5B.6E63@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.198.86.187 X-Trace: neon.noos.net 999161012 23544 212.198.86.187 (30 Aug 2001 08:43:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@noos.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:43:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:259610 alt.magick.tyagi:29059 alt.occult.methods:206 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:25:28 GMT, catherine yronwode wrote: >The Tao wrote: >> >> "catherine yronwode" wrote: > Dr. Massimo Introvigne has pointed out to me Mario Praz's > conclusion in "The Romantic Agony" that one of the major > ritual sections of "Magia Sexualis" that can not be found > in Randolph's works is derived from Josephin Peladan's > novel "A Couer Perdu." See his "Il Cappelo del Mago: I > Nuovi Movimenti, Dallo Spiritismo at Satanismo (Milan: > SugarCo Ed. 1990), 100. [...] > >So de Naglowska got this initiatic material from a novel -- which leads >one to wonder about who wrote the novel, and what sources the novelist >consulted, and so forth. > Catherine, Josephin Peladan was a well known figure of french "fin-de-siecle" occultism. He was one of the leading members of Stanislas de Guaita's "Ordre de la Rose-Croix Kabbalistique", but he later broke with him to create his own "Ordre de la Rose Croix Catholique", whis was AFAIK, more an artistic movement than an order in the conventional meaning of the term. The musician Eric Satie was close (member?) to this group during some time, probably when he wrote his piece "Premiere pensee Rose+Croix". As for Peladan's sources, I don't really know, but the main influences on french occultism at that time were Levi and Martinism. As for Maria de Naglowska, I dont know a lot about her, but I have heard that a well known french writer about alchemy (Claude d'Ygé) was a member of her group. rem Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!teaser.fr!noos!not-for-mail From: silverkey@silverkey.chaosmagic.com (rem) Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.occult.methods Subject: Re: Randolph, Naglowska, North Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:46:03 GMT Organization: Service Usenet NoosNet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3b8e1672.8888966@news.cybercable.fr> References: <1f3aa792.0108270605.7f350ce8@posting.google.com> <20010827.114659.968338082.2280@my-deja.com> <3b8a758c.417428961@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3B8A8FF4.A45A135B@envirometrics.com> <3b8aa35c.429159211@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <1f3aa792.0108271745.28cf4103@posting.google.com> <3B8B2DBB.6FCB@luckymojo.com> <1f3aa792.0108281417.220907b1@posting.google.com> <3B8C26FB.1FC9@luckymojo.com> <1f3aa792.0108282115.3a680ab8@posting.google.com> <3b8c8aa7.553925119@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3B8C99F9.5545@luckymojo.com> <3B8DEC5B.6E63@luckymojo.com> <3b8df95b.1441426@news.cybercable.fr> <3B8E0F9E.7593@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.198.86.187 X-Trace: neon.noos.net 999168622 1989 212.198.86.187 (30 Aug 2001 10:50:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@noos.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:50:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:259617 alt.magick.tyagi:29061 alt.occult.methods:208 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:55:20 GMT, catherine yronwode wrote: >Thank you very much, Rem! I appreciate your help with this international >reasearch. Did de Guaita's Ordre de la Rose-Croix Kabbalistique or >Peladan's Ordre de la Rose Croix Catholique publish manuscripts of their >rites -- or is it safe to assume that the stuff de Naglowska lifted from >the Peladan novel was but a thinly disguised ritual from one of these >two orders? > I'm afraid I cannot reply you about publication of rituals: I never heard about it, but I might be wrong. An other interesting possibility to investigate would be the connexion between french occult groups and HB of L, which, if I understand it well, is more or les connected with Randolph (I never understood the relationships, if any existed, between Eulis brotherhood, brotherhood of light and HB of L: too much brotherhoods!). At least one of the members of the papus-de guaita-peladan circle was close to Max Theon, who was the leader of HB of L, his name was Charles Barlet. (web page about him at : http://www.kheper.auz.com/topics/Theon/Barlet.html) Peladan could have learned some things while discussing with Barlet, but frankly, I doubt it: Peladan was more fascinated by the esthetic aspects of occultism, but i don't think he was deeply involved in it. Rem