Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E751873.D7212B91@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.occult.methods,alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 335 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:25:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1047860743 209.204.150.155 (Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:25:43 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:25:43 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15051 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36158 alt.occult.methods:562 alt.magick:340997 alt.magick.tyagi:39198 I am reprinting a March 4, 2003 Newsday article here in usenet because it will expire from the Newsday online cache at some time, and i wish it to be archived on a more permanent basis. It raises important health concerns for the occult, witchcraft, neo-pagan, hermetic, magical, hoodoo, spiritual, and religious communities -- concerns that center around the safety of a little known "oily" feeling chemical called diethyl phthalate (DEP). At the time of this writing (March, 2003) many of the mass-produced and commercial occult, magical, hermetic, witchcraft, religious, and spiritual oils such as Love Oil, Abramelin Oil, Venus Oil, Holy Oil, and so forth -- which are used daily by practitioners in a number of magical and spiritual traditions, are really not oil-based, but are made with diethyl phthalate. In particular, all of the anointing or dressing oils from International Imports -- including the brand names Indio, Anna Riva, Seven Sisters of New Orleans, Dr. Pryor's, and Arjax -- contain diethyl phthalate and no natural oils. The reasons for this are two-fold: First, diethyl phthalate is an artificial chemical, so it is not subject to rancidity the way natural oils such as almond oil or olive oil are. Thus a diethyl phthalate based "oil" will have a very long shellfire. Second, because diethyl phthalate acts as a more efficient "spreader" than natural oils, it is a more economical carrier for essential oils (natural or artificial) than a natural oil would be. With diethyl phthalate, a manufacturer can use less scent per ounce of finished product, saving money. Diethyl phthalate is not a historical ingredient in any classical, medieval, renaissance, or modern recipe for anointing oil, holy oil, spiritual oil, or dressing oil. The use of diethyl phthalate in industrial chemical compounds dates back only to the 1950s. Its use as a carrier or base in magical, religious, and witchcraft oils began in the 1970s, and has steadily increased as larger companies like International Imports have purchased smaller down-home occult oil manufacturers and changed their formulas from a natural oil base to a diethyl phthalate base. Smaller manufacturers of occult oils, especially those with a commitment to traditional magical practices and techniques, such as Ancient Ways, Panpipes, and Lucky Mojo, do not use diethyl phthalate as a carrier. Typically their oil bases are natural -- usually a vegetable oil such as almond or olive, or, in formulas that are mineral based, mineral oil. If the magical, spiritual, religious, or witchcraft oils you buy seem "thin" or have a "chemical" scent, it is likely that they are diethyl phthalate based. Some manufacturers also use diethyl phthalate in their so-called "waters" and "vinegars." For instance, any brand of Four Thieves Vinegar (an old Italian formula dating to the 1600s that is used for protection, to prevent disease, and to overcome enemies) that says "not for human consumption" on the label should raise a red flag; it is a pretty good guess that the vinegar portion of the recipe has been replaced with diethyl phthalate. Diethyl phthalate will not always be mentioned on the label of occult and religious supplies, but it often is. If you are unsure, call the manufacturer and ask what bases or carriers they use for their spiritual oils. If the person answering the phone doesn't know, ask to speak to someone in the manufacturing department. Let the buyer beware. -- cat yronwode ------------- BEGIN REPRINT ------------- New Questions About Common Chemicals Environmental and health groups are pushing to restrict the use of phthalates - compounds used in cosmetics, toys and medical devices By David Kohn David Kohn is a freelance writer. March 4, 2003 They have become ubiquitous: a group of little-known chemicals used in everything from nail polish to skin moisturizers to toys to shower curtains to time-release capsules to vinyl flooring. They soften plastic and dissolve fragrance into perfume. They are the new car smell in new cars. But are they safe? Some researchers say there is evidence that the chemicals can cause birth defects and damage the male reproductive system. Several environmental and health groups are pushing to restrict the compounds' use in cosmetics, toys and medical devices. The chemicals in question are a family of versatile substances known as phthalates, widely used for the past 50 years. U.S. manufacturers produce around a billion pounds a year. "Rubber boots, swimming pool liners, traffic cones, insulation on electrical wiring - anything you see that's plastic, it's likely that it contains phthalates. They're everywhere," says Mike Shelby, director of the Center for the Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction at the National Institute of Environmental Health Services. The Center has spent the past 18 months studying phthalate risks. Scientists have long known that relatively large doses of some phthalates (pronounced "tha-lates") can lead to health problems, including cancer. But researchers have begun to suspect that lower levels may also have negative effects. And new research suggests that humans are being exposed to higher levels of phthalates than previously realized. "This is on everybody's radar now," says Boston University environmental epidemiologist Richard Clapp. "We may not have seen the fire yet, but there's an awful lot of smoke." According to toxicologist Paul Foster of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, researchers are finding that smaller doses than previously realized can cause harm. His recent work on how the chemicals affect the development of the rat reproductive system suggests that fetuses in the first trimester are particularly vulnerable. The lowest level that produced adverse effects in the rats was 100 milligrams a day per kilogram of body weight. This is about 500 times more than what a 2001 study by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found in the general human population. Many toxicologists prefer the level to be 1,000 times higher than a level that produces adverse effects. "When you're dealing with things that cause birth defects," Foster says, "you like to have a nice cushion." Foster also notes that he examined only one compound, dibutyl phthalate (DBP). Along with one other compound, Di 2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP), DBP is considered to be the most toxic phthalate. "I don't think anyone needs to panic," he says. "But I don't feel really comfortable with young women who are being exposed to two or three different phthalates." Industry groups counter that phthalate-containing products pose no danger to humans. "Exposure in humans is well below levels that have shown no effects in animals," says Gerald McEwen, vice president for science at the Cosmetic, Toiletry, and Fragrance Association, based in Washington, D.C. "The data shows that these [levels of] chemicals are safe." Most phthalate researchers say the jury is still out on phthalate risks - particularly their threat to developing fetuses and children. Dozens of animal studies have shown that phthalates can disrupt the endocrine system, inhibiting male hormones and causing male infertility and birth defects. But animal studies alone do not provide enough proof, says Marian Stanley, manager of the American Chemistry Council's Phthalate Esters Panel, which presents the industry's side in the debate. "Nobody's been able to reliably link any harmful effects to humans," she says. The reason, says Shelby of the Center for the Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction, is that research on humans barely exists. "Industry says there is no human evidence, and that's true," says Shelby. "But the absence of evidence doesn't mean there's no effect. In this case, it means that no one's studied it." As concern over phthalates grows, more scientists are doing research on humans. A study published last year in Environmental Health Perspectives, the official journal of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, found that a group of men with DNA-damaged sperm also had higher levels of diethyl phthalate (DEP) - regarded as one of the less toxic phthalates. "The data suggests there may be an association between phthalates and problems with semen. It's intriguing," says the study's leader, Professor Russ Hauser of the Harvard School of Public Health. U.S. regulators have already restricted some phthalate use. Earlier this year, the Food and Drug Administration recommended that when performing procedures on male babies and boys, as well as women pregnant with boys, hospitals avoid using IV bags, blood bags and tubing made with DEHP. The compound, which makes the devices pliable, can leach from the plastic. The FDA also asked, but didn't require, manufacturers to label DEHP-containing medical devices so hospitals could more easily avoid them. Much of the recent debate has focused on the chemicals' presence in cosmetics. A 2001 study by the CDC found widespread phthalate exposure, including higher than average levels of some phthalates in the urine of women of childbearing age. Some women exceeded the EPA's safety standard, a finding that scientists say are enough of a concern to warrant further study. A follow-up CDC study in January reported similar results. The phthalates found in largest quantities were DBP and DEP , which tend to be used in cosmetics and perfumes. The EPA's "reference dose" - an estimate of the maximum daily exposure that is unlikely to cause adverse health effects - for DEP and DBP is 0.1 milligram per kilogram of body weight per day (a kilogram is 2.2 pounds). The agency, which set those levels over a decade ago, says it is now revising them. Researchers surmised that the elevated levels of DBP and DEP could be caused by women's use of beauty care products. "There's cause for concern," says researcher John Brock, who oversaw the CDC study. "We have broad exposure to phthalates in the population. We have animal studies that show risk. So we really need to know where these exposures are coming from." In response to the finding of elevated levels in women of childbearing age, a coalition of three environmental groups decided last year to analyze phthalate levels in cosmetics. They tested 72 name-brand cosmetics - everything from shampoo to perfume to deodorant - and found phthalates in 52. "We never found the word 'phthalate.' We read thousands of labels," says Charlotte Brody, director of Health Care Without Harm in Washington, D.C., one of the groups. Federal labeling laws do not require phthalates to appear on ingredient lists of many cosmetics and other products; they are usually part of the "fragrance," which is considered a trade secret, and so may be omitted from labels. "Millions of women are being exposed to multiple phthalates," says Jane Houlihan, director of research at the Environmental Working Group, another coalition partner. "And they have no way of even knowing what products contain phthalates." Pediatrician Lynn Goldman, for one, would like to know. Her 6-year-old daughter loves nail polish, and also bites her nails. "I have no idea what is in those products," says Goldman, a professor of environmental health at Johns Hopkins University and former Environmental Protection Agency official who was in charge of regulating toxic chemicals during the Clinton administration. Hair and nail salon workers "are breathing nail lacquers and hair sprays day in and day out," she said. But the FDA says phthalate-containing beauty products are safe. In November, the Cosmetics Ingredient Review panel (CIR), an industry-funded safety panel that advises the FDA, reviewed existing scientific data and found that phthalates in cosmetics pose no risk. The FDA agreed. "The consensus between the CIR and the FDA was that phthalates are safe in cosmetics," said FDA spokeswoman Veronica Castro. Several cosmetics companies, including Aveda, have stopped using phthalates in new products. Recently, the European Union decided to phase out DEHP and DBP from use in cosmetics. The chemical industry argues that the move was not based on science, but on irrational fear and incomplete evidence. Noting that some cosmetics are made without phthalates, Brody wonders why manufacturers don't simply replace the controversial compounds with other chemicals. McEwen says the answer comes down to logic: "Why should we change from something that is absolutely safe? That doesn't make sense." Phthalate opponents say that even without ironclad proof that low levels cause harm in humans, there is enough data to warrant a ban. Animal studies must be considered, they say, particularly given the difficulty of doing phthalate studies in humans. "It's very hard to study in people, and very hard to find problems even when they exist," says Goldman. "If a kid grows up and has fertility problems, are you going to know how much nail polish his mother used during pregnancy? We need to use the animal data." The debate extends beyond cosmetics. Many soft plastic toys are made with diisononyl phthalate (DINP), which studies show causes liver damage in animals. Some environmental groups say the chemical, which makes up as much of 40 percent of some plastic playthings, can leach out at risky levels, particularly when kids suck on toys. Responding to a combination of research and pressure, some countries have restricted phthalates in toys. The EU has banned DINP in toys for kids 3 and under, while Japan has announced a plan to get rid of DEHP and DINP in toys for kids 6 and under. In 1998, U.S. toy manufacturers voluntarily agreed to stop using phthalates in pacifiers and rattlers. But environmental groups say many other toys still contain DINP. Recently, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission completed a four-year study, concluding that toys with DINP were not a health risk. While agreeing that DINP could be toxic, the commission said children sucked on toys an average of 1.9 minutes per day, and would have to suck for 39 minutes to ingest risky levels. But environmental and consumer groups criticize the ruling. "The CPSC is erring on the side of exposing kids to a toxic chemical," said Andy Igrejas of the nonprofit, nonpartisan National Environmental Trust, which wants DINP banned from all 5-and-under playthings. For some, the disputes over specific types of products miss the point. "It's wrong that we're asking about phthalates just in cosmetics or toys. People are getting phthalates from multiple sources," says Dr. Ted Schettler, science director for the Science and Environmental Health Network. Some researchers believe that phthalates can migrate from packaging into food, especially fatty items like cheese and meat. An ongoing study by the Silent Spring Institute is looking at air and house dust in 120 Massachusetts houses and has found "significant concentrations" of phthalates, including DEHP and DBP. The study has been submitted for publication in a leading journal. "That suggests we should consider inhalation as a pathway," says toxicologist Ruthann Rudel, who led the study. One senior government researcher, who requested anonymity, said that because phthalates are part of so many products, no one has a clear picture of how and where humans are being exposed. He notes that the CDC study looked for only seven compounds; there are, he says, dozens used in commercial products. Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc. ------------- END REPRINT ------------- Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magic,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" References: <3E751873.D7212B91@luckymojo.com> <20030316220958.04734.00000186@mb-fk.aol.com> <72a20c0c.0303171315.1e5ae696@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 106 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:49:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.154 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1048045794 209.204.150.154 (Tue, 18 Mar 2003 19:49:54 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 19:49:54 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15119 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36172 alt.magic:164997 alt.occult.methods:564 alt.folklore.herbs:105349 "Sarah L." wrote: > > hoodwinkedbrand@aol.com (HoodWinkedBrand) wrote: > > cat yronwode wrote: > > > I am reprinting a March 4, 2003 Newsday article here in usenet because > > > it will expire from the Newsday online cache at some time, and i wish > > > it to be archived on a more permanent basis. It raises important > > > health concerns for the occult, witchcraft, neo-pagan, hermetic, > > > magical, hoodoo, spiritual, and religious communities -- concerns that > > > center around the safety of a little known "oily" feeling chemical > > > called diethyl phthalate (DEP). > > > [snip] > > > > Thanks Cat for the info. You may or may not know that Indio actualy > > sells the stuff by the gallon, labeled as "Solvent". Here's the > > link.... > > http://www.indioproducts.com/files/page_91.html Yep. That's it. Thanks for the link. Basically, Indio uses diethyl phthalate to cut essential herb and flower oils to make them more blendable in a carrier. They wouldn't be selling it by the gallon if they were not buying it by the 55 gallon drum, if you take my meaning. > > The one thing I might add is that the chemical in question is just one > > of several possible harmful ones contained in and or produced as a by > > product of plastic manafacturing. Everyone has been exposed. Yes, we are all exposed, environmentally speaking, to these noxious chemicals -- but how many people BURN PLASTIC IN RITUALS? When you dress a candle with an aromatherapy or occult oil that contains diethyl phthalate, and burn the candle, you are inhaling the stuff -- which is considered the most dangerous way to expose yourself to it. By fortuitous coincidence, a customer came into our shop today -- and drove about 100 miles to see us, too, bless him -- who happens to be a professional organic chemist, with a Ph.D. and all. I asked him about diethyl phthalate being used in dressing oils that are burned on candles, and boy, you should have seen the look on his face! He was shocked! He explained that when diethyl phthalate is pyrolized (heated and burned) it breaks down into benzene, a very toxic chemical. His final summary, after a detailed chemistry lesson: "Diethyl phthalate is a xeno-estrogen, so it's not good for the reproductive system. If you burn it, it can give you cancer." 'Nuff said. > Excellent info, thanks. Prompted me to check out what all I have in > the house. Frist did research on Sunshine Oils, their products have > been around for awhile. Found out they are owned by The Golden > Temple/3HO(http://www.goldentemple.com/), not my favorite group of > folks, so won't be buying their products again. Anyway, got this > response from their customer service rep concerning whether their > products contain diethyl phthalate: > > "The making of our Sunshine Oils includes the proprietary blend of > natural essential oils that make up a particular fragrance mixed with > dipropylene glycol. > > In most cases we use natural essence, with exception to our Ambergris, > Musk, and Sandalwood Perfume oils." > > This from Jennifer Merrill, Customer Service Rep. > Soothing Touch & Sunshine Spa > 1-800-285-6457 ext. 289 > jennifer@kiit.com > > Her answer is somewhat confusing. I'm checking on just what > dipropylene glycol is. As for "natural essence" in the perfume oils, I > thought carnation oil for one was almost always artificial. They do > sell a carnation perfume oil. Carnation is a blend of natural and artificial scents -- there is no natural carnation oil. > The second company I checked is LorAnn Oils: > http://www.lorannoils.com/aroma_homepage.htm > > "LorAnn oils has been importing and distributing essential oils since > the early 1960's, and our customers recognize LorAnn for consistent, > dependable quality. LorAnn's essential oils are 100% pure botanicals > without any added alcohol, carrier oils or other natural or synthetic > dilutants or extenders. Our oils are obtained exclusively through > steam-distillation or cold press. Each oil is tested and certified. > Every batch and bottle is lot-coded for quality assurance." > > They also manufacture Global Notes Pure Essence Perfume: > http://www.globalnotes.com/qa.htm > > Thanks again for the information, very good to know. I only knew to > discern between essential and perfume oils before learning this. I am > researching some local products also. One company, Radiance Herbs and > Massage states: "Be careful: there is much deception in the world of > fragrance. Make sure your source is trustworthy." > My only experience so far with Lucky Mojo products were with all that > is contained in the Cast Off Evil kit, I was very very pleased, > everything felt fresh and lively. Good stuff. Thanks for the further information, Sarah. cat yronwode Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/catalogue.html Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E780A6E.30353C94@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magic,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" References: <3E751873.D7212B91@luckymojo.com> <20030316220958.04734.00000186@mb-fk.aol.com> <72a20c0c.0303171315.1e5ae696@posting.google.com> <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 100 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:02:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1048053759 209.204.150.94 (Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:02:39 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:02:39 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15123 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36179 alt.magic:165005 alt.occult.methods:567 alt.folklore.herbs:105352 catherine yronwode wrote: > > "Sarah L." wrote: > > > > hoodwinkedbrand@aol.com (HoodWinkedBrand) wrote: > > > > cat yronwode wrote: > > > > > I am reprinting a March 4, 2003 Newsday article here in usenet > > > > because it will expire from the Newsday online cache at some time, > > > > and i wish it to be archived on a more permanent basis. It raises > > > > important health concerns for the occult, witchcraft, neo-pagan, > > > > hermetic,magical, hoodoo, spiritual, and religious communities -- > > > > concerns that center around the safety of a little known "oily" > > > > feeling chemical called diethyl phthalate (DEP). > > > > [snip] Following up on my own post, i also found this page on diethyl phthalate, which explains what to do if you spill a drum of it in your factory: http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/Chem_H&S/NTP_Chem8/Radian84-66-2.html -EMERGENCY PROCEDURES ==================== *SKIN CONTACT: IMMEDIATELY flood affected skin with water while removing and isolating all contaminated clothing. Gently wash all affected skin areas thoroughly with soap and water. If symptoms such as redness or irritation develop, IMMEDIATELY call a physician and be prepared to transport the victim to a hospital for treatment. *INHALATION: IMMEDIATELY leave the contaminated area; take deep breaths of fresh air. If symptoms (such as wheezing, coughing, shortness of breath, or burning in the mouth, throat, or chest) develop, call a physician and be prepared to transport the victim to a hospital. Provide proper respiratory protection to rescuers entering an unknown atmosphere. Whenever possible, Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) should be used; if not available, use a level of protection greater than or equal to that advised under Respirator Recommendation. *EYE CONTACT: First check the victim for contact lenses and remove if present. Flush victim's eyes with water or normal saline solution for 20 to 30 minutes while simultaneously calling a hospital or poison control center. Do not put any ointments, oils, or medication in the victim's eyes without specific instructions from a physician. IMMEDIATELY transport the victim after flushing eyes to a hospital even if no symptoms (such as redness or irritation) develop. *INGESTION: DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. If the victim is conscious and not convulsing, give 1 or 2 glasses of water to dilute the chemical and IMMEDIATELY call a hospital or poison control center. Be prepared to transport the victim to a hospital if advised by a physician. If the victim is convulsing or unconscious, do not give anything by mouth, ensure that the victim's airway is open and lay the victim on his/her side with the head lower than the body. DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. IMMEDIATELY transport the victim to a hospital. *SYMPTOMS: Symptoms of exposure to this compound may include irritation of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract; reproductive disorders and headache [269]. Inhalation of heated vapors may cause transient irritation of the nose and throat [058,346,421]. High concentrations may cause narcosis [031,043,051,062]. High concentrations may also cause central nervous system depression [151,295]. Other symptom of exposure include conjunctivitis, corneal necrosis, dizziness, nausea and eczema [346]. Inhalation may lead to coughing and chest discomfort [058]. Inhalation may also lead to lacrimation, respiratory obstruction and other unspecified respiratory system effects [043]. (Full list of sources [in brackets above] are at the cited URL) I have been asked in email to explain why, if diethyl phthalate is so bad, the FDA allows it in cosmetics and in aromatherapy and magical oils. Quick answer -- I don't know. I have also been asked if diethyl phthalate is really so much worse than traditional carrier oils, like Olive Oil or Almond Oil. Quick answer: Imagine that instead of diethyl phthalate a manufacturer was using Almond Oil as a carrier, and spilled a 55 gallon drum of that. You would not see warnings about clean-up teams transporting workers to the hospital or using scuba gear to go into the building, would you? Well, there's the difference, in a nutshell. I again want to emphasize that not all manufacturers of magical or aromatherapy oils put diethyl phthalate in their products. But some do. Let the buyer beware. cat yronwode Hoodoo Herb and Root Magic http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooherbmagic.html Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E7F8FD1.37C550E2@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" References: <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> <10818@purr.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:57:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.210 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1048546651 209.204.150.210 (Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:57:31 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:57:31 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15171 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36231 alt.magick:341577 alt.occult.methods:575 alt.folklore.herbs:105411 Graham Sorenson wrote: > > > [someone] wrote: > > However: so will a great many aromatic oils. Are you going to stop > > burning any oil that contains limonene, methyl salicylate, benzyl > > cinnamate or methyl benzoate? (That would account for about half of > > all the oils used in aromatherapy). > > What is this about burning oils? In Aromatherapy oils are > Diffused/evaporated not burned. > > Burning indicates to me that you use the oils as a flammable agent rather > than dispersing them because they are volatile oils. > > You are using obfuscation here about how essential oils are used in > aromatherapy. The burning of oils on candles is a practice in some forms of traditional folk magic, not in aromatherapy, but was mentioned because the same health considerations apply. The inhalation of diethyl phthalate in ANY form (burned or unburned) was implicated as a cause of sperm damage and cancer in the March 4th Newsday article cited at the beginning of this thread. cat yronwode Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/catalogue.html Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E812C7A.198A1647@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" References: <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> <10818@purr.demon.co.uk> <10825@purr.demon.co.uk> <3e8049ba@news.isc.rit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 63 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 04:18:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.164 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1048652291 209.204.150.164 (Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:18:11 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:18:11 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15174 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36235 alt.magick:341666 alt.occult.methods:578 alt.folklore.herbs:105424 [??? ] wrote: > >> What is this about burning oils? In Aromatherapy oils are Diffused/ > >> evaporated not burned. > >> Burning indicates to me that you use the oils as a flammable agent > >> rather than dispersing them because they are volatile oils. [???????] wrote: > >I'd assumed the original poster meant the oils were incorporated into > >the candle wax. I was the original poster. I did not refer to candle wax but to dressing oils used on candles. This is part of the hoodoo tradition of African-American folk magic, also called conjure and rootwork. The dressing oil -- which traditionally is a blend of essential oils and herbs in a carrier oil such as Olive or Almond oil -- is either spread on the surface of a free-standing candle or poured into the "well" of a pillar or glass-encased candle while prayers are said. The dressing oil is thus burned with the molten candle wax. > >If they're not burned then there isn't any benzene hazard from the > >phthalate, either. The point is that any middling-sized molecule > >with a benzene ring in it will degrade to produce free benzene at > >about the same temperature; there's no difference in risk between > >the aromatic oils and this synthetic additive. cat yronwode: > > > The burning of oils on candles is a practice in some forms of > > > traditional folk magic, not in aromatherapy, but was mentioned because > > > the same health considerations apply. The inhalation of diethyl > > > phthalate in ANY form (burned or unburned) was implicated as a cause > > > of sperm damage and cancer in the March 4th Newsday article cited at > > > the beginning of this thread. Tijuana Iguana > So which oils have this element (and/or candle wax, as I've heard > that rumor outside of this forum also) ? The original post concerned a large manufacturer of traditional hoodoo oils that are also sold widely in the magical and New Age communities -- the maker is International Imports in Southern California. The company has several lines of oils, marketed under the brand names Indio, Arjax, Seven Sisters of New Orleans, Anna Riva, and River of Jordan. This manufacturer does not follow traditional African-American hoodoo practice by putting herbs in the oils, and in some formulas the company has substituted synthetic fragrances for traditional herbal or floral essential oils. The company has introduced diethyl phthalate into the some or all of the formulas. Upstream in this thread a poster named Jason Gammon (HoodwinkedBrand) found and posted the URL where Indio Products sells diethyl phthalate by the gallon at its retail website. It is unclear at this time how much diethyl phthalate there is in each of this manufacturer's products. It may be used simply to cut the more viscous essential oils, like Myrrh Oil or Patchouli Oil, but it was suggested to me that this chemical may now be a major carrier for the fragrance. I have not heard any rumours about diethyl phthalate being used in candle wax, but since it is a softening agent, i would look for it first in glass-encased 7-day candles, which are made with a very gooey form of soft wax. International Imports is also a manufacturer of these soft wax candles, by the way, but not by any means the only such manufacturer. cat yronwode Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!unlnews.unl.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail From: bogus@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" Date: 26 Mar 2003 10:47:42 GMT Organization: The Biggest Fluff Mine in Midlothian Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <10829@purr.demon.co.uk> References: <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> <10818@purr.demon.co.uk> <10825@purr.demon.co.uk> <3e8049ba@news.isc.rit.edu> <3E812C7A.198A1647@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: purr.demon.co.uk X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1048724880 2041 194.222.239.177 (27 Mar 2003 00:28:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:28:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Posting-Agent: MacSlurp 1.7 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15183 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36245 alt.magick:341739 alt.occult.methods:584 alt.folklore.herbs:105433 >>> If they're not burned then there isn't any benzene hazard from the >>> phthalate, either. The point is that any middling-sized molecule >>> with a benzene ring in it will degrade to produce free benzene at >>> about the same temperature; there's no difference in risk between >>> the aromatic oils and this synthetic additive. >> The burning of oils on candles is a practice in some forms of >> traditional folk magic [...] The inhalation of diethyl phthalate >> in ANY form (burned or unburned) was implicated as a cause of >> sperm damage and cancer in the March 4th Newsday article cited at >> the beginning of this thread. > If burning even a pure essential oil also releases phthalate, though.... It doesn't. It may release benzene, but in small quantities. Benzene is carcinogenic but not violently so, it's hardly in the same league as tars in in smoke. An aromatic oil isn't going to be present in very large quantities. Since diethyl phthalate doesn't have a very strong smell there could be quite a lot of it in an oil or wax without you noticing. > It seems to me that this practice (though traditional) is not > terribly safe no matter exactly what the composition of the oil > is, fully natural or not... It's probably going to release a lot less tar than burning incense, and people have been doing that for thousands of years without any discernible cancer epidemic resulting. On the other hand xeno- oestrogenic pollution has had a dramatic impact on sperm counts in industrialized countries over the last few decades - that *is* something to worry about. ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro". Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!uninett.no!newsfeed1.eu.ignite.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail From: "Yowie" Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magic,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs References: <3E751873.D7212B91@luckymojo.com> <20030316220958.04734.00000186@mb-fk.aol.com> <72a20c0c.0303171315.1e5ae696@posting.google.com> <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> <3E780A6E.30353C94@luckymojo.com> Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:17:40 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Lines: 44 Message-ID: <3e8558a1$0$11482$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.194.90 X-Trace: 1048926370 11482 198.142.194.90 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15188 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36264 alt.magic:165440 alt.occult.methods:587 alt.folklore.herbs:105478 "catherine yronwode" > I have also been asked if diethyl phthalate is really so much worse > than traditional carrier oils, like Olive Oil or Almond Oil. > > Quick answer: Imagine that instead of diethyl phthalate a manufacturer > was using Almond Oil as a carrier, and spilled a 55 gallon drum of > that. You would not see warnings about clean-up teams transporting > workers to the hospital or using scuba gear to go into the building, > would you? Well, there's the difference, in a nutshell. You'd be surprised. The Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for the most innocuous looking things read like a horror story. For example, plain old table salt, NaCl, does horrid things to the skin, and can produce nasty effects if inhaled inthe right quantities. I laugh each time it I see "do not ingest" on the containers at work (I am an industrial chemist) From the MSDS for almond oil (found at http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/akomsds.pdf) we have: "Signs/Symptoms of overexposure: MAY CAUSE MILD EYE IRRITATION. FIRST AID SKIN: WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER. RINSE WITH PLENTY OF WATER. LUNGS: MOVE TO FRESH AIR. SEEK MEDICAL CARE IMMEDIATELY. EYES: FLUSH WITH PLENTY OF WATER FOR 15 MINUTES. INGESTION: DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. SEEK MEDICAL CARE IMMEDIATELY" "USE SUITABLE RESPIRATOR TO CLEAN UP SPILLED PRODUCT IF AEROSOLS ARE PRESENT" Thats not to say that pthalates are safe as almond oil, because they aren't. But like most things, a small degree of exposure won't cause a problem in most people. Dressing a candle with diethyl pthalate is not going to increase the exposure to DEP all that much. I'd still prefer to use natural products if I can, and yes, DEP prolly does present some risk to the human body, but in terms of overall danger to life, using a car as transport is still far far far more deadly than DEP usage. Just trying to put it into context. Yowie Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc72.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.zip.com.au!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail From: "Yowie" Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magic,alt.occult.methods,alt.folklore.herbs References: <3E77EB51.B0CD83C0@luckymojo.com> <10818@purr.demon.co.uk> <10825@purr.demon.co.uk> <3e8049ba@news.isc.rit.edu> Subject: Re: Diethyl Phthalate in Magical "Oils" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:31:20 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Lines: 41 Message-ID: <3e855bd6$0$24559$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.194.90 X-Trace: 1048927190 24559 198.142.194.90 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:15189 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36265 alt.magic:165441 alt.occult.methods:588 alt.folklore.herbs:105479 "Tijuana Iguana" wrote > So which oils have this element (and/or candle wax, as I've heard > that rumor outside of this forum also) ? Which oils have the benzene ring? Pretty much all of them, and yes, so does candle wax in varying degrees (although most of the candle was tends to be long chain aliphatic hydrocarbons, there is almost always some contamination with other organic compounds) . The benzene ring (C6H6) is responsible for some to the coolest smells around - its no coincidence that anything with a benzene ring as part of its structure is known as an "aromatic" hydrocarbon. But don't panic. Burning or even heating an aromatic compound doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be breathing in tonnes and tonnes of actual *benzene*. You'll be inhaling *mainly* pure bog standard air with its usual contaminants in it - dust, pollution, bacteria, viruses, dog farts, etc etc. And some aromatic hydrocarbons from the essential oil, of which, most will still be intact. Some will have degraded to various degrees, and yes, there may be some actual benzene molecules included in the mix, but it won't in such quantities as to cause severe effects unless you happen to be overly sensitive. If you consider that the human animal was designed specifically to inhale air which has buckets of contaminants, and detect smells (a certain class of air contaminants), then the nice aroma of incense isn't all that bad for you. If you notice youg et a headache, red eyes, develop asthma or other symptoms with a particular scent, then quit using it, but if you consider our early ancestors sat in poorly ventilated caves and lit wood fires in them, even *burnt* (as opposed to just vapourised) essential oils aren't going to be all that dangeous to sensible people. Ywoie