To: soc.religion.eastern
From: tyagi nagasiva (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com)
Subj: God-Realization; Religion (9306.gdrlztn.tn)
Date: 49930620
Quoting: |Jeff Chance
         |>tyagi

|>...Masters give advice.  If people follow this advice
|>then they restrict themselves.  Self-restriction is one of the most
|>important practices known to humans.
|
|Au contraire, if you think you can fulfill yourself without
|taking any advice or help, the hostile forces are doing a
|number on you. 

Huh?  We all fulfill ourselves, inasmuch as it is by our efforts that
we make ourselves ready for the Great Work and then the God of us gives
us the Grace to accomplish it.

I suppose saints and fortunates need no aid, though I have met few.
I don't understand your comment here.  I would think you would have
whole-heartedly agreed with my words.  All I was saying was that the
master gives us advice for discipline and then we can follow it, often
with very valuable results.


|If you think you don't want or need to be
|fulfilled, the hostile forces are doing a number on you.
|If it turns out that you should have a God-realized Master
|as your teacher, and you follow his advice, you are wiser
|than the wisest.

I think I must walk in a different place than you, then.
For me, 'God-realized Master' is a figment, an illusion, a shifting
phantom which surrounds me at every turn.  If I am carefully attentive
I can see the hand, the eye, the tongue of God in leaf, twig, cloud
and animal.  If I am very careful I can see the realization of God
in every person I meet.


|Tyagi, you may be interested in the following quote, which is
|from a poem entitled "Glory to Ramakrishna!" written by his
|disciple Vivekananda. I read it in Vivekananda's book
|"Ramakrishna and His Message". One of the verses goes thus:
|
|Devoid wert Thou of the idea of sex,
|Thought of possession charmed Thee not. To Thee
|Obnoxious was all pleasure. Give to us,
|O greatest among Tyagis, love intense
|Unto Thy sacred feet; give, we implore!

Oh this is quite wonderful indeed!  Thank you for sharing it.

Tyagi