Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!unlnews.unl.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!stl-feed.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!eballard From: Eoghan Ballard Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick,alt.magick.folk,alt.pagan,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.support.grief.pet-loss Subject: Re: Black Colour Problem - Why? (was: Black Cat Bones in Magic and Religion (was roots) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 20:19:05 -0400 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 65 Sender: eballard@14-142.002.popsite.net Message-ID: References: <20020417014523.09485.00004538@mb-fz.aol.com> <3ccc5f13.13889046@news.sunrise.ch> <3ccf37ee.22328672@news.sunrise.ch> <3cd175f2.2265443@news.sunrise.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 14-142.002.popsite.net User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:13265 alt.magick:299050 alt.magick.folk:5053 alt.pagan:299190 alt.pets.cats:26206 rec.pets.cats.misc:63671 alt.support.grief.pet-loss:30133 Hi Sheaugbeau, Torturing animals is not a typical part of either African religion or Afro-diasporic religion. In this notable case it did exist. I doubt very many people are doing it in the US any more and it was never to my knowledge practiced outside of the US. However, it was practiced. The people who did it, although they possessed very different views than you or I were not monsters nor were they essentially cruel. What is common to all forms of African and Afro-diasporic religion that is not overly influenced by European traditions is animal sacrifice. What you do not seem to be able to do is to examine practices of various traditions without imposing your own cultural-centric values and views. I do not condone torture of any animal, however, I also recognize that the sacrifice of animals in most religious contexts (which include by the way both Jewish Kosher and Islamic Halal food preperation) is far more humane than the means by which animals are processed to appear in the supermarkets of America. Unless you are a strict Vegan, you can't really point fingers at anyone. Also, contrary to your statements, people who engage in animal sacrifice, whether clean and rapid like most ritual sacrifice or messy and painful like the more gruesome methods of the "Black Cat Bone" ritual do not hate animals. Further, it is a very big leap from animal sacrifice to Human sacrifice. I suggest you dampen some of your gut reactions and allow yourself the opportunity to do some objective research into what the best minds of the academic world Western and otherwise, have to say on these matters. the fact that you do not wish to understand this does not make you right. I do not condone animal torture. I have never performed the Black Cat Bone ritual, nor anything like it. However, I have not isolated myself from the nitty gritty of life and death. I have killed animals for food, and have looked those animals in the eyes. I might add that most of the animals sacrificed in African ritual end up being food for the community as well. That is far more honest and ethical than those who cringe at the thought but have no problems going to KFC or Mickey Dee's. We all live and we all die. Life is sacred, but it is incredibly short. Both humans and animals are here for a very short span. It is far more a matter of how life is lived than how long it is lived. Given that, if I were to have to choose between being a rooster killed in a ritual in Cuba, Brazil, Luanda or Brooklyn or raised on one of the typical poultry farms in the US, where they are kept in small non mobile cages and killed by machine, I would choose to be the one sacrificed. Either way, 99.999999% of all such animals die before their "time" but those who die at the hands of ritual specialists of Afro-diasporic or African religions live much more normal lives prior to their usually quite rapid and more compassionate deaths than those that fill your Super-Fresh. The goat that dies in a ritual has had more natural pleasures than the cow that supplied the leather for your shoes or belts. Likewise, I will remark that the recent saving of a dog on a barge in the middle of the ocean at the tune of many tens of thousands of dollars is more obscene than the death of a hundred animals. If you are concerned with the welfare of animals consider what might have been done with that money to aid the animals that wander the streets of amny cities. I think the animal rights movement has taken leave of what little sense it ever had. Happy to be very un-PC, Eoghan