Path: typhoon.sonic.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!in.nntp.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!05-043.002.popsite.net!user From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (Eoghan Ballard) Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.religion.orisha Subject: Re: Orisha...Orixa...Orisa...oh my! Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 18:57:12 -0400 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 20 Sender: eoghanballard@05-043.002.popsite.net Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 05-043.002.popsite.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:9001 alt.religion.orisha:10211 In article , "OmiJuba" wrote: Actually Omijuba my friend, they are not exactly the same. The spelling is convenient for noting which tradition you are referring to, however, above and beyond the merely linguistic issue of how you choose to spell the word, in these various traditions not only do the Orixa, Oricha, Orisa behave differently but the fundamentos are constructed in distinctly different ways. They all come from similar (although not completely identical) roots but they are different. This is not just a theoretical or academic distinction. Likewise, Nkuyu nfinda (Lucero Mundo) in Cuba is not Aluveia in Brazil nor Lemba in Angola. They are all ultimately the same basic deity from the same roots but are yet different. the notion of Caminos is not far away from this one. Eoghan Path: typhoon.sonic.net!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!04-160.002.popsite.net!user From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (Eoghan Ballard) Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.religion.orisha Subject: Re: Orisha...Orixa...Orisa...oh my! Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:34:14 -0400 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 47 Sender: eoghanballard@04-160.002.popsite.net Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 04-160.002.popsite.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:9023 alt.religion.orisha:10240 In article , "OmiJuba" wrote: > Ifa, Ocha and Candomble are all Yoruba orisha traditions. Omijuba, they are all traditions descended from the Yoruba but they have developed differently. If you understand the notion of Caminos what both Cat and I are trying to describe is not so different. I don't think anyone is saying that Yemaya is not Yemaya. But Yemalla has distinctive characteristics that make her different (apart from being La Regla) from her counterpart Iemanja in Bahia. Both are quite distinct in their ways from the Yemaya of Nigeria. In fact the Yemalla of Cuba and the Iemanja of Brazil have more in common with each other than with the Yemoja of Nigeria. For one thing, and this is a big one, Yemoja in Nigeria has only a river and it's fresh water at that. There are many things and beings that have contributed to the construction of the character of new world Orixas and Orichas that are different from those of Nigeria. While ultimately the similarities can doubtlessly be said to outweigh the differences, those differences should not be underestimated. One cannot consider the God of the Southern Baptist the same god as that of the Scots Presbyterian or of the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian, yet they all share the same religious history. The difference in the character exhibited in all these "avatars" if you will of the Christian god (I am sure the Christian of any stripe would prefer that we call them understandings but this is our conversation not theirs) reflect a very different religion and a very different understanding of the faith. The same is true, only magnified in Oricha traditions around the world. Since all Oricha traditions are founded and rely heavily upon the ashe of each tradition and have their own recipes and instructions for these things, these religious secrets, there is yet another way in which the Oricha, the Orixa and the Orisa are different. Can you not see the possibility of recognizing unity without disavowing the very real differences that exist? I did not think that Christianity had a total monopoly on metaphysical understandings of physical realities. Personally I see this as a richness in those traditions and not a thing to disavow. Of course, as Cat is always wont to say "You might get different mileage." Salamaleko mpangiame, Eoghan