Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,alt.magick.tantra,talk.religion.buddhism Subject: The Buddhist Path (was What Makes Valid Tantric Ideology ...) Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 72 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <8fusrq$pd1@bolt.sonic.net> References: <390e4cab.26634835@news> <8ell3t$4uf$1@nnrp9.crl.com> <390e6062.31671615@news> <8elpk8$7p2$1@nnrp9.crl.com> <390e6f9d.35566358@news> <8elt3m$a9u$1@nnrp9.crl.com> <390f513a.1580901@news> <8enr7t$1hf3$1@sns.terminal.cz> <8f80nh$2g@bolt.sonic.net> <3922ABBB.DA4DEF54@bu.edu> Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:44:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 958592681 208.201.224.36 (Wed, 17 May 2000 12:44:41 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:44:41 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:23073 alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan:72627 alt.magick.tantra:15943 talk.religion.buddhism:124102 50000517 IVom Tang Huyen : > > >What kind of trash is this? > >The Buddhist path is to do away with the self, and, along with it, >any sense of purpose. what kind of trash is this? :> the buddhist path is too vast, too broad to make categorical descriptions based on the fact that the foundation, the Four Noble Truths, is a formula for success, not a prescription regarding specific practices. the self cannot be "done away with" since it doesn't have any lasting existence. instead the SELF-IMAGE, what we take to be the self, is left behind for a direct perception of the present. a sense of purpose is typically some conformity with preconceived notions about what "should be happening". since each individual is a different combination of elements these processes are largely variable from one another and the general practice should vary so that each may awaken to the real. traditions concretize around particular methods, and this is well and good, but none of these should be promoted as 'the best for all people'. >The Buddhist sage is purposeless, planless, goalless (a-pranihita, >literally he does not put anything in front of himself, Chinese >translation "wishless", Latin propositum means plan). The Buddhist >sage, if he acts at all (and he can choose not to act), acts >without effort (an-abhoga), which goes in the same direction. as there is no consistent object in front of which to place things, it would not be *possible* to do this, though this does not mean that there is no discernable orientation or theme to the actions of an arhat, bodhisattva, or buddha. otherwise you would be describing completely 'random' acts. examine the life story of Padmasambhava for some interesting 'motivations' ascribed to and described by this individual (such as his motive for killing people!). >If, as you say: "Those people who have no ideology in life are >not human beings", then the Buddhist sage is not a human being. there is a supernatualist slant to some Mahayana Buddhism which I find somewhat disturbing. it is comparable to the distance made between the stories of Jesus Christ as a human being and as a Son of the Biblical God. separating buddhas from human beings is a severe and deplorable obstacle to place before the aspirant who might otherwise understand the buddhist path to be available to any and all whose nature is drawn to it. making it clear that Gautama was a human being like any other, that multiple lives are, as far as we can know, fictitious, and that nirvana may be obtained by the diligent IN A SINGLE LIFETIME, goes some distance to encouraging even the desperately deluded to improve their condition. I know that you were contrasting your knowledge with that of Dharma Dave, and I am merely responding to your expression here, but I do find that a great deal of the fantasy surrounding mystical enterprises sufficiently complicates an approach to awakening that they may daunt those whose nature steers them toward more simplistic and simplifying routes. namaste in metta, nagasiva -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired