Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!raffles.technet.sg!iss.nus.sg!cmtan From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng) Newsgroups: alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.meditation.vipassana Subject: Re: KO'Neill: Re: Vipassana/Zazen Date: 3 Oct 1995 02:34:48 GMT Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, National University Of Singapore. Lines: 62 Message-ID: <44q7g8$eo1@holodeck.iss.nus.sg> References: <42m8up$fuv@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <437f3d$d6h@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <439dg3$kbo@sundog.tiac.net> <43nlo0$h6s@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <43pldk$8io@sundog.tiac.net> <44lirs$2l6@jobe.shell.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.iss.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: shell.portal.com alt.zen:16147 alt.philosophy.zen:4212 talk.religion.buddhism:12074 alt.magick.tyagi:4532 Just some small clarifications here. The person who originally wrote this post seems a little ignorant of the Chinese language. I'm Chinese, so I guess that makes me the "horse" who owns the "horse's mouth". nagasiva (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) wrote: : [from alt.philosophy.zen: koneill@azstarnet.com (Ken O'Neill)] : Nirvana means to extinguish - not the passions, but the source of misdirected : passion - avidya, or witlessness. Or in Chiense, mumyo - not bright. : Ignorance is not supported in original languages. This statement is inaccurate. In Chinese, the source of all sufferings is "Than", "Zhen" & "Chi", which means Greed, Hatred and Ignorance. : Nor is "right". You know right. As in the 8fold path, starting with : samyakdrsti/shoken - "right views." BS. both the Skt and Ch mean full or : complete. Yes and no. In Pali (a close cousin of Skt. The Buddha is commonly believed to speak either Pali or a language very close to it), the word used is "samma", as in "samma sati" for "Right Mindfulness". Now, the word "samma" should really mean "Perfect" (as in "samma sambuddha", "Perfectly Enlightened Buddha"). So u'r right tt the 8-fold path should be "Perfect thought", "Perfect speech" ...etc.... The original rendering of "Right" was errornous, but it stuck. Having said that, however, the 2nd part of your statement is wrong. In Chinese, the word "Zheng" is used, which means "Right". Of course, due to the usage of Chinese words, one can argue tt "Zheng" could mean "Perfect", but tt's stretching things a little. : Key words to buddhadharma are these: awakening/waking up, : naturalness/spontaneity (jinen), nondual liberation (vimoksha versus hindu : moksha (dual)), and mugyo - NOT practice/not goal. If u'r refering to Chinese, then this statment is wrong. In Chinese Buddhism, "key words" include "xiu xing" (to practice), "zheng guo" (the "right fruit", or "right goal", or nirvana) and "guan ding" ("to observe and to stabilize", or mindfulness & concentration). : Hope this is yeast for sake making fermentation. Hope I had clarified the few minor errors before fermentation begins. -- Meng the Merciful \(^_^) \(^o^)/ (-_-)zzz +--------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | | | | Tan Chade-Meng | cmtan@iss.nus.sg | | Software Engineer | http://www.iss.nus.sg/People/cmtan/cmtan.html | | Singapore | tel: (65) 7726813 | | | | +--------------------+------------------------------------------------+ "Life is too important to be taken seriously."