Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!usc!newshub.csu.net!imci3!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.erols.com!newsmaster@erols.com From: wdintzis@pop.erols.com (Bill Dintzis) Newsgroups: alt.meditation,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan Subject: Re: Shamata/Vipassana vs. Dzogchen. Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:36:06 GMT Organization: Erols Internet Services Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4m51dt$lvo@news5.erols.com> References: <4lehq4$e8h@eve.speakeasy.org> <4lk15a$5hr@wolfe.wimsey.com> <4lm17s$dof@platform.uoregon.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: as10s32.erols.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.meditation:24989 alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan:7815 reitel@rz.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de ( A ) wrote: >In article <4lm17s$dof@platform.uoregon.edu> rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes: > Is togal the same thing that Pema Chodron calls tonglen in "Start Where > You Are"? >--- >no. OK time for some basic definitions. Pema Chodron is talking about tong-len, "sending and taking" or "exchanging self for others", which is part of lojong, or "mind-training." Tong-len is a basic mahayana practice, which by the way is also taught as a Dzogchen preliminary practice. Togal is part of the traditional two aspects of Dzogchen completion-stage practice, which is divided into trekcho ("cutting through" of concepts of mind, etc) and togal (luminous seeing). Tong-len , which the book you are talking about describes, is a very important, powerful, and beneficial practice, which is said to enhance the discovery of twofold egolessness (egolessness of self and other), as well as cultivate bodhicitta (the heart motivation of enlightenment). If you want paralells, it is similar to the metta practice in Theravada (Insight meditation) also. It could be said to be part of trekcho (cutting through) aspect of Dzogchen, because it cuts through the artificial concepts of self and others. Therefore, it will enhance the understanding and experience of togal when and if one gets to that poing (togal is usually kept secret until the Dzogchen master decides the student is ready for it.)