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From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
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Subject: Rick: Nagarjuna and Buddhism
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Date: 11 Apr 1997 01:12:24 -0700
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[from uk.religion.buddhism: rick <stclair@mit.edu>]

C.V.T.Richards wrote:
 
Hi, C.V.T.,

> If I understand correctly, Nagarjuna did not oppose to the notion that
> phenomena exist, but, rather that the self-nature (svabhava) of the
> phenomena, which we presume to be inherent in the phenomena,
> are merely a construction of our inability to see the true nature of
> the phenomena. The 'true' nature of a phenomenon is that it is empty of
> any self-nature.(Ref; Hopkins, 'Emptiness')

This is the essence of all Buddhism in the sense that it defines dukkha and
generally why "we" are stuck in it.  It's kind of a sanitized/conflated remake 
of Noble Truths 1 & 2, and less effective, IMVHO.

> Thus, phenomenon minus self-nature exist but are not considered real.
> Since, according to Buddhism in general, the only state which is real is
> unconditioned and permanent Nirvana. If the svabhava is 'unreal' and
> nirvana is real, to what state should ascribe the remanant phenomena to?

This is not a coherent question...yet.  I believe Nagarjuna was addressing
the issue of living in balance between Emptiness and Conditioned reality,
hence the term "Middle Way."  The whole point of experiencing Emptiness
and/or "True Suchness" is to break free from the karmic bonds of
Conditioned Reality. Until we do, we are subject to the terms and
conditions of karma.  Hence, the compassionate formula of Middle Way,
which is the vehicle from samsara to nirvana, or one way of looking at it.

Don't know if this helps, and I'm too lazy to look up any references. <g>

Take care,
In the Dharma,
Rick