Path: ultra.sonic.net!bug.rahul.net!207.0.229.10.MISMATCH!rahul.net!a2i!newsfeed.erinet.com!inquo!xmission!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news From: "David Oller" Newsgroups: alt.zen Subject: Re: Zen and Taoism Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:24:07 -0800 Organization: better to look in the human eye--than either sea or sky! Lines: 69 Message-ID: <7ddv7d$es6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <01be74c7$22c4f680$668801d4@default> <36F72899.BDE09EC8@worldnet.att.net> <36F7C7CC.D82EF7A7@pathcom.com> <7d9mgk$1oc@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <36F93A4D.6708DF56@pathcom.com> <7dceg0$97g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <36FA0E6B.F444DF6A@pathcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alb-nm1-11.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Mar 25 10:27:57 AM PST 1999 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.zen:128753 LD, You misunderstand the Bodhisattva Vows, so everything you construct on top of them is a Fairy Tale. How many sentient beings are there to be saved? 3. The Buddha said to Subhuti:"All the Bodhisattva- Mahasattvas should thus keep their thoughts under control. All kinds of beings such as the egg-born, the womb-born, the moisture born, the miraculously-born, those with form, those without form, those with consciousness, those without consciousness, those with no-consciousness and those without no-consciousness - they are all led by me to enter Nirvana that leaves nothing behind and to attain final emancipation. Though thus beings immeasurable, innumerable, and unlimited are emancipated, there are in reality no beings that are ever emancipated. Why, Subhuti? If a Bodhisattva retains the thought of an ego, a person, a being, or a soul, he is no more a Bodhisattva. 4. "Again, Subhuti, when a Bodhisattva practices charity he should not be cherishing any idea, that is to say, he is not to cherish the idea of a form when practising charity, nor is he to cherish the idea of a sound, an odour, a touch, or a quality. Subhuti, a Bodhisattva should thus practice charity without cherishing any idea of form, his merit will be beyond conception. Subhuti, what do you think? Can you have the conception of space extending eastward?" "No, World-honoured One, I cannot." Subhuti, can you have the conception of space extending towards the south, or west, or north, or above, or below?" "No, World-honoured One, I cannot." "Subhuti, so it is with the merit of a Bodhisattva who practices charity without cherishing any idea of form; it is beyond conception. Subhuti, a Bodhisattva should cherish only that which is taught to him. 5. "Subhuti, what do you think? Is the Tathagata to be recognised after a body-form?" "No, World-honoured One, he is not to be recognised after a body-form. Why? According to the Tathagata, a body-form is not a body-form." The Buddha said to Subhuti, "All that has a form is an illusive existence. When it is perceived that all form is no-form, the Tathagata is recognised." 6. Subhuti said to the Buddha: "World-honoured One, if beings hear such words and statements, would they have a true faith in them?" The Buddha said to Subhuti: "Do not talk that way. In the last five hundred years after the passing of the Tathagata, there may be beings who, having practised rules of morality and, being thus possessed of merit, happen to hear of these statements and rouse a true faith in them. Such beings, you must know, are those who have planted their root of merit not only under one, two, three, four, or five Buddhas, but already under thousands of myriads of asamkhyeyas of Buddhas have they planted their root of merit of all kinds. Those who hearing these statements rouse even one thought of pure faith, Subhuti, are all known to the Tathagata, and recognised by him as having acquired such an immeasurable amount of merit. Why? Because all these beings are free from the idea of an ego, a person, a being, or a soul; they are free from the idea of a dharma as well as from that of a no-dharma. Why? Because if they cherish in their minds the idea of a form, they are attached to an ego, a person, a being, or a soul. If they cherish the idea of a dharma, they are attached to an ego, a person, a being, or a soul. Why? If they cherish the idea of a no-dharma, they are attached to an ego, a person, a being, or a soul. Therefore, do not cherish the idea of a dharma, nor that of a no-dharma. For this reason, the Tathagata always preaches thus: `O you Bhikshus, know that my teaching is to be likened unto a raft. Even a dharma is cast aside, much more a no-dharma.' --Diamond Sutra David