Path: ultra.sonic.net!news
From: i@no.self (!)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.consciousness.mysticism
Subject: identity and nonduality
Date: 24 Jul 1999 02:53:41 -0700
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!:
|#>- detachment has the problem of insensitivity and cruelty. (...)

a correspondent replied:
|#> And this one? Especially the "cruelty" problem of detachment?

disconnection, disunity, dispassion. sometimes these are tauted
 as 'spiritual' by those who become detached (rather than merely
 nonattached)

another responded to hir:
|# When a person has developed detachment they generally will not 
|# 'dance the dance' with someone meaning that they will not get 
|# into the drama of a situation or take on the emotions of the 
|# person involved in whatever the challenge.  To the person 
|# involved they can miss the compassion behind the actions or 
|# words because of the detached person will generally not jump 
|# into the mud puddle with them.  It can then seem unsympathetic 
|# or cold.

it can BE unsympathetic (not feeling the same) and cold (note
 the common association -> cold, detached, removed). 'compassion'
 means to me 'suffering with' another; to remain unaffected by
 the challenge, to treat a person's problems as a 'mud puddle'
 which one avoids so as not to become 'dirty' is not compassion

|# I have also noticed though that sometimes  what a person 
|# presents as detachment is actually a withdrawal of compassion 
|# or a blocking of himself off from love.  Such a person can 
|# understand the principals of non-duality and detachment and 
|# may have experienced a taste of it in meditation.  He/she
|# then thinks they have fully achieved detachment but it can 
|# be a game of the mind.  True and complete detachment would 
|# involve surrender to the Self or God or Guru (whatever term 
|# is proper) and compassion and love are then inherent in the 
|# detachment.  

detachment (from X) has differing significances which are not
 always defined succinctly. always there is a referent, yet
 too often this referent is lost or forgotten. therefore the
 valiant attempts to achieve "detachment" which do not
 detach from an identification of the perceived with the real,
 but instead detach from all other living experiences,
 detach from love and emotion, detach from the suffering
 of the world rather than experiencing it all holistically,
 are symptoms of underlying problems rather than spiritual
 development
 
|# As with so much else great amounts of discrimination are 
|# needed to recognize the difference.

sometimes only the guide (guru, sheikh, rabbi, sensei etc.) 
 can provide the insight necessary to avoid these dangers

she in turn responded:
| ...I am not sure though if this is what "[!]" meant, 

to be sure to obtain a response, cc me in private email. there is
 a strict filter from this email list to my mailbox and I receive
 very few of the posts. it is the 'value of ignorance' which I
 will explain in another post 

| if "cruelty and insensitivity" were mentioned by him 
| "from the level" of " the involved person". And since  
| "... compassion and love are inherent in true detatchment", 
| as you trully wrote and I believe are "communicated", I 
| found the statement unclear.    

this sounds unclear to me also. I have been instructed (or
 have discovered) that a dual-mode analysis of human action
 describes much of my spiritual endeavor (and that of many
 whom I have shared time): 

	compassion/wisdom
	love/will 
	enjoyment/discipline
	euphorics/ascetics 
	subjective/objective
	attachment/detachment 
	hypersensitivity/insensitivity

these are admitted extremes and fictions but for their
 usefulness in approximating the development of human
 maturity. emphasizing wisdom, will, discipline and
 ascetics tend to increase insensitivity and detachment,
 a disconnection from the world. combining this with the
 opposite pole (compassion, love, enjoyment and euphorics)
 provides two rails upon which one may slide down into
 the Maya Ma(w)

| Also I do not understand  his classification of "love" 
| only as subjective and at the relative level and at 
| the same time "will" as objective, at the absolute level? 

relative level of truth: a subject amongst objects, 
 separation, disparate things amidst a sea of chaos; 
 'love' is their drawing together, a subjective experience 
 (emotion) which inspires and integrates attachment. this 
 latter, emphasized, is the foundation of suffering (dukkha)

absolute level of truth: nonduality; 'will' motivates
 reconfiguration, the shuffling of participants in a
 dance of replacement energy packages (false 'objects')
-- 
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