Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail
From: !
Newsgroups: alt.zen
Subject: Re: will the real zen stand up please
Date: 6 Aug 1995 02:15:08 -0700
Organization: Portal Communications (shell)
Lines: 107
Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com
Message-ID: <40216s$2cf@jobe.shell.portal.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com

|>|>|Was this Zen Master having a flashy experience?   

|>|>expansive, surely 
  
|> Exactly so!! 

|Does the spirit of your zen practice court consciousness expansion?  

absolutely.  what more could awakening be than an expansion of awareness,
 of consciousness?  wake up, billy, it's time to go to school now!

|Self-expansion? 

there is no self to expand

|Expansive experiences?

yes, extending in many dimensions simultaneously.  I think that it
 may be possible that Masters simply haven't had the language to describe
 what may be very important experiences yet which could not be communicated
 except through ritual activity or unorthodox rhetoric (koan)

I do not know Japanese, so perhaps you could assist me.  what does 'satori'
 mean?  I thought it was something on the order of expansion.  the Abyss
 is sleeping in the library else I'd fetch a definition myself. :>

|I am worried about Steven, who talks below of consciousness
|expanding beyond its contents (!?!).

not to worry.  Steven can take care of himself.  at least until he says
 different

|...! has made it pretty clear, over the years, that he thinks "zen" is 
|all about expanding the ego, until it is not smaller than the world.  

what?  hmmm, this is very strange to me.  you've me mixed up with some
 other bloke.  perhaps this was meant to be a personal insult on the
 order of a flame and I am so dense that I did not realize it right off.
 
ah well, it'll roll off my back, Jackson.  broad and feathery. ;>

|...his other silly pronouncements--"Become God!" in one of his .sigs,

oooooo, pinched a nerve in one of yer cheeks, did it?  my goodness, 
 but you've got me pegged for miles and have me fried and frickazeed on 
 a community spit.  "Do the Hokey Pokey!"

|his use of the moniker "tyagi the zen satanist" 

very nice.  a zen satanist monk.  makes perfect sense to me.  you really
 have to spend more time studying these subjects to get to know the various
 nuances of their combination.

apparently we are rivals.  very well ;}

|(referring... to his personal take on "zen"--as something that can lead 
|to larger, stronger egos.)

very interesting notion.  why would one wish to have a larger, stronger ego?  
 is there some benefit to it?  any detriments?  is there something about 
 Satanism which addresses egos and egotism?  I suspect so, but I'm rather
 biased about these things and would like to hear your speculation on 
 their relationship 

|I hope someone will be able to help ...! settle down and lose a pound 
|or two out of his blivet--

what the fuck is a 'blivet'?  now I have to consult my Am.Her.Dic.:
 uh-oh, it doesn't have it.  let me try the 2nd runner (Web New Un Dic):
 well, it's either spelled differently, it's French or at least not 
 an English word, or it is nonsense and I've been wasting my time. :>

I imagine it must be the head or the stomach, as those are the most
 uncomplimentary locations in many cultures for extra poundage, and
 the head is suggested of increased ego-residence, which I think I
 am said to have by many individuals (:> fun to be an ego on the prowl)
 
|he is an old acquaintance and as a friend I wish him the best.

aw, that is sweet of you.  I hope that this has all been a bad dream and
 I'll wake up to you smiling, saying 

	'there there !, it's ok, they just had to remove a few 
	 pounds of your blivet.  you won't be needing it, really.  
	 no, I signed the release form for you.  everything will 
	 be fine, just lean back.  stop struggling.  lay *down*,
	 Mr. !!  Ow!  Hey!  That hurt!  Why you little....!!!!'

:>  

|Steven, frankly, deserves better than this kind of confusion.  
|I think everyone here sees both his fine spirit, and his predicament.

better than CON FUSION?  NO WAY!

|>|my take was that it is a realization of great proportion 

|Great proportion.  comments from the more experienced practicioners?

oh yes, please.  but how will they compare their experience?  
 how about comments from those generally interested instead?  
 I personally tend to associate comparisons of experience and 
 enlightenment and so forth as complicated ploys for attention.  
 if there is such a difference, it will become immediately known 
 to those who come into contact with us, I'm sure.

the kettle of fish jumped