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From: nedludd@ix.netcom.com(Ned Ludd )
Newsgroups: alt.zen
Subject: Re: Smartest Woman on Earth Trashes Koans!
Date: 30 Apr 1996 18:23:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Message-ID: <4m5lqf$c3r@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4lvtsu$j38@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4m4u28$3fp@peippo.cs.tut.fi>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Apr 30  1:23:11 PM CDT 1996

In <4m4u28$3fp@peippo.cs.tut.fi> jupi@kaarne.cs.tut.fi (Vehkalahti
Jussi) writes: 
>nedludd@ix.netcom.com(Ned Ludd ) writes:
>> And Marilyn's answer was: 
>note:[the smart woman, high iq]
>> I'm not interested in koans, which I believe are worse than
>> a waste of time and encourage dulling of the wits.
>
Jussi:
> This is a perfect show of intelligence. Beware if you show signs
> of it (in case you are interested in zen or enlightenment). 
>
   I think she's right about koans 'dulling the wits'.  At least
   they knock the edges off it.

[Marilyn continuing...]
>> I also believe that speaking in a mystical manner and acting
>> self-important shows that a person _isn't_ enlightened.
>
Jussi:
> Another one. Though this was more entertaining, at least in my
> opinion. 
>
> Enlightenment is something. It is not nothing, because all is nothing
> and enlightenment is not all. It's a thing, and you too can get it. 
> Enlightenment is nothing. There is nothing to gain by following a 
> path to enlightenment. Many paths, none lead nowhere. 
>
> BTW, koans aren't supposed to be solved?
>

   Again and again.


   A monk asked Yao Shan, "What is Nirvana?"  Yao Shan said,
   "What did you call it before you opened your mouth?"