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From: derek@catstick.demon.co.uk (Derek Gladding)
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism
Subject: Re: psychoactives and practice
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 00:30:24 GMT
Organization: The World of Cat on a Stick
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gr8tao@aol.com (Gr8tao) wrote:

> Zentao writes:
>	I can only guess that the fear of discussing the use of 
>psychoactive substances and the possible value of such experiences, is 
>just another side-effect of those who are looking at the subject through 
>such old, narrowly-focussed, social lenses. My rambling
>ceases........Amen<
>========================================================
>No my narrow view has nothing to do with old social lens although I am now
>near 50 - My view has to do with experience and the knowledge of addictive
>disease processes. As a recovering addict/alcoholic I have truely been
>there - done that and so have millions of other people who came thru my
>60's generation.  I now have 10 years of sobriety and I wouldn't trade a
>minute of it for an LSD trip.  You seem to be in a "dry" state which means
>that you have stopped some use but you are not yet clean and sober (there
>is a difference.) 

>Less than 20% of the people addicted survive the addiction - the process
>is chronic, progressive and fatal.  I only hope you find your way to
>treatment  at some point in your life, it appears the drugs have taken
>thier toll and advising anyone to experiment with this stuff is a narrow
>point of view from an addicted eye trying to rationalize his behavior and
>drug use. IMO and I do have strong opinions on this matter - there is
>never a reason to get into drugs of any kind and I do wish dearly someone
>had hopped all over me when I was 18 - I might not have had the journey
>into hell that I did.  Madelynn. 
>                                                      

There's always that fine line between "use" and "abuse". My personal
history with drugs during my teens was usually along the lines of "how
much of this stuff can I take without screwing my life up ?" -
oscillating wildly between waking up with a joint before rising and
going months without even alcohol. That was fine for me - where the
problems arose were when I started serious self-examination and
consciousness altering, combining various meditative/theraputic
techniques together with high drug consumption - panic attacks, ego
deaths (not of a pleasant variety - I wasn't ready) and it became
clear that one or the other had to stop. The meditation stayed, the
drugs stopped.

Whenever anyone asks me about this, I always mention the Nietzscheian
"that which does not destroy us makes us stronger". Yes, I've had my
little visit, probably just to the outskirts of hell, but its part of
what formed me and I learnt a lot from it. Yes, there's no point
looking for things that suck, but there's usually reasons for people
to do these things. If someone had hopped all over you at 18, would
you have done it later on ? What were you trying to escape from ?

Drug (in the widest sense) use always seems to me very much like
sensible use of a credit card - you always have to pay back and stay
within your credit limit. If you don't pay it back, the debt builds
and builds until it spirals out of control. I can't remember the exact
quote, but theres a passage in "Slaughterhouse Five" where an officer
who's been in POW camp for a long time is explaining to the newbies
there about a common way for people to die in camp:

"First they stop shaving and looking after their appearance, then
their posture goes, then they get out of bed later, then they stop
getting out of bed at all, then they die. It seems a very easy and
painless way to go"


- Derek

The more you know, the more you know | Derek Gladding
You don't know what you know         | derek@catstick.demon.co.uk (h)
Now and Zen, you goof again          | derek@argonaut.com (w)
You never blow your trip forever     |