Path: kudonet.com!kudo20!tyagi From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism Subject: RRRossman: Re: Zen vs. Zen Buddhism vs. Buddhism Followup-To: alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism Date: 14 Feb 1997 12:58:53 -0800 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 45 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: References: <32FE2654.554D@ix.netcom.com> <32FE23B1.7DA4@idt.net> <32FE3920.3390@ix.netcom.com> <32FE67CB.305C@idt.net> <33000F07.5D19@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: tao@gladstone.uoregon.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo20.kudonet.com [from alt.zen: Ryan Robert Rossman ] ! wrote: >>>If awakening wasn't nutured by Zen practice, e.g., kinhin, formal >>>dining, zazen, sanzen, samu, etc., what is the point of Zen at all? >the point is that awakening is not nurtured but prepared for What can never be found can only be unlost. >>"What is the point of this? >eat food, wash bowl Do for doing's sake and all questions of value are resolved. You live for living's sake, just as you hear for hearing's sake You understand this through experience not labels. Reality not symbols. >>Why am I doing this? >>Why sit? >>Why practice Zen?" >why why why. because because because Practice Zen because it is Zen. If you practice Zen for the purpose of knowledge (the apparent purpose of all on this newsgroup) you will gain only as much as knowledge allows. If you practice Zen for Zen's sake and see what happens, you will learn not to ask stupid questions. The answer lies in experiencing Zen not in intellectual exercises. >>>Do you really think Baptists and Zen Students have the same >>>probability of enlightenment? >no, my head explodes and there is no bridge to kenrun If I say Bapists have the same enlightenment as Zen Students, I have said nothing. If I say Zen students have a different probability of enlightenment I have said nothing. Which is the greater nothing, that of the Baptist's or that of Zen? Is it different or the same than the nothing by which you judge sameness and difference? Questions are thought up, and thinking leads you nowhere. No-mind leads you beyond appearances and beyond nothings.