Path: ultra.sonic.net!jupiter.dnai.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfeed.wli.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: pdez@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,ncf.sigs.religion.buddhism Subject: Taoism 101 (was Re: NLudd: Reading Translators) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:31:08 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 94 Message-ID: <77ie7s$qsk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <3693E78F.4DA3@freenet.carleton.ca> <771d2t$ohe@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <36945E5D.4615@freenet.carleton.ca> <772mvb$k43@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <369512E2.2845@freenet.carleton.ca> <01be3ada$c8b06ec0$2b290685@x1info43> <775oit$sq0@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <77g9d5$grn@bolt.sonic.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.160.235.92 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 13 15:31:08 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x9.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 130.160.235.92 Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.buddha.short.fat.guy:94474 alt.zen:121836 talk.religion.buddhism:69496 nedludd@ix.netcom.com wrote: Hi Ned, Someone spit this over into alt.philosophy.taoism, but they missed the spitoon, so I'm slinging it back your way. > Sphere's translation: > > Search for your source and your self is not found. > Grip yourself and no source is found. > > Ned's translation: > > Seeking a source, you find no-self, > Clinging to self, you lose the source. > > SilentNight's translation: > > Search the origin without your own self, > But rely on the Self without your origin. The Tao Te Ching has it: Without desire, one sees the origin. With desire, one sees the manifestations. Both spring from the same source But are differently named. And this is a mystery. The mystery of the sameness is the gateway to all essence. > This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Everybody's looking at > the same words and coming up with very different stuff. They are, after all, just words. Naming is a mental thing, not the thing itself. Debates and disagreements are not about the thing itself, but about the name. Since naming is an act of interpretation, it necessarily involves perspective. Understanding and accepting the fact of this perspective is knowing when to "stop." > TTC32 (partial) -- Feng & English > Once the whole is divided, the parts need names. > There are already enough names. > One must know when to stop. > Knowing when to stop averts trouble. > Tao in the world is like a river flowing home to the sea. > > CT: A Happy Excursion (partial) -- Lin Yutang "You are ruling the Empire, > and the Empire is already well ruled," replied Hsu: Yu. "Why should I take > your place? Should I do this for the sake of a name? A name is but the shadow > of reality, and should I trouble myself about the shadow? CT (Lin Yutang) On levelling all things. "Only the truly intelligent understand this principle of the levelling of all things into One. They discard the distinctions and take refuge in the common and ordinary things. The common and ordinary things serve certain functions and therefore retain the wholeness of nature. From this wholeness, one comprehends, and from this comprehension, one to the Tao. There it stops. To stop without knowing how it stops -- this is Tao. But to wear out one's intellect in an obstinate adherence to the individuality of things, not recognizing the fact that all things are One, -- that is called "Three in the Morning." What is "Three in the Morning?" A keeper of monkeys said with regard to their rations of nuts that each monkey was to have three in the morning and four at night. At this the monkeys were very angry. Then the keeper said they might have four in the morning and three at night, with which arrangement they were all well pleased. The actual number of nuts remained the same, but there was a difference owing to the (subjective evaluations of) likes and dislikes. It also derives from this (principle of subjectivity). Wherefore the true Sage brings all the contraries together and rests in the natural Balance of Heaven. This is called (the principle of following) two courses (at once.)" What is the course of "Walking two roads?" It is the understanding of the interpretive nature of language, understanding that "self" (to the extent that "self" is a thing...) is not the language used, not the labelling, not the thoughts that rummage around in our heads. Because one exists, one participates in these things to some extent, in the naming, in the labelling. Yet there is an aspect of "self" (or no-self) that is not so limited, this thing for lack of a better label is sometimes called Tao -- where labels/words have no meaning. Walking two courses at once means to walk in the land of words with the intuitive understanding that these words are mere labels, not the thing in itself, and that the labels are no different than the chirping of birds in the trees, appreciating them as such as one walks along. regards, dez -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own