Path: ultra.sonic.net!bug.rahul.net!207.0.229.10.MISMATCH!rahul.net!a2i!newsfeed.erinet.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm From: tjn Newsgroups: alt.zen Subject: Re: Zen and Taoism Date: 23 Mar 1999 05:40:04 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 61 Message-ID: <36F72899.BDE09EC8@worldnet.att.net> References: <01be74c7$22c4f680$668801d4@default> Reply-To: ryugin@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.75.174.196 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WorldNet (Win95; I) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.zen:128552 Michael Lowe wrote: > > I have a question. What is the connection between zen and taoism? How are > they different and how are they the same? I do not know much about either > but I have read enough to get the impression that there are similarities > between them as belief systems. I would appreciate any answers/ leads that > anyone can offer. early in the history of Buddhism in China there were difficulties in translating buddhist Sutras into Chinese. at that time translators experimented with using Taoist terms to help in translation. there seemed to them to be similarites. later after the Indian monks Kumarajiva and Gunabhadra began teaching (this is 5th century and so before zen as a school developed) it became clear that the similarities were somewhat superficial. it was clear that in practical terms there were differences. if you want the history you can consult _Zen Buddhism: A History_ by Heinrich Dumoulin. so after the early period of collaboration all that was left was that the Buddhist scholars had better methods of using Chinese literary means (Taoist and Confucian) to translate Indian Buddhist concepts. more specialized histories such as _The Will to Orthodoxy_ by Faure', _The Northern School and the Formation of Eearly Ch'an Buddhism_ by McRae, and _The Formation of Ch'an Ideology in China and Korea_ by Buswell clarify that Chines Ch'an was a school of Buddhism whose emphases were shaped by Chinese culture but which were not introducing anything much that was not anticipated in India. after Ch'an (Zen) began to flourish in the 8th and 9th centuries Taoists at court persuaded the emperor to order the suppression of Buddhism (around the year 845 CE if memory serves). hundreds of thousands of monks and nuns were returned to lay life and monastery properties were seized. out of the more than 10 schools of Chinese Buddhism that previously existed only Ch'an and Pure Land survived in China. the remainder only survived in Japan and Korea. Chinese dynasties often justified changes in politics with changes in religious ideology. to make change palatable the "Son of Heaven" used ideological means to persuade folks of his policies or provide a rationale. any skilled politician knows that it is easier to persuade folks than to force them and the Chinese government practiced shaping opinions of the other powerful lords of the land. these ecercises in changing ideology often had severe effects on the sects involved if they were dependent on state patronage. Ch'an (Zen) and Pure Land were relatively independent of imperial patronage and also had important centers in local regions were central control was not so tight. the persecution lasted only a few years but it was enough to destory the other schools. as a result many texts were lost. the often told myth that "the three learnings (Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism) are in essence one" is a pious fable that had the helpful effect of tempering religious competitiveness for imperial patronage. although there were government interferences in religious affairs after this time they were not as severe. later writers notably DT Suzuki and Alan Watts have overstressed the seeming similarites to the point of speaking of a syncretism between Buddhism and Taoism. yet it is hard to find any elements of meaning in the Chinese Buddhism of the T'ang dynasty that was not also in India. what was borrowed from Confucianism and Taoism were only forms of expression. you can check the above references if you wish.