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From: nedludd@ix.netcom.com(Ned Ludd)
Newsgroups: alt.zen
Subject: Re: Zen and Taoism
Date: 30 Mar 1999 20:21:52 GMT
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In <7dqo16$6qk@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> "David Oller"
<doller@ix.netcom.com> writes: 

Toshu:
>> the manipulation of Japanese opinion through "education" and
>> propaganda was the most manipulative exercise in mass deception
>> in the 20th century. neither the Nazi's nor Mao's nor Stalin's
>> PR folk came close to being as pervasive and effective. in
>> addition the Japanese were more patient, working for decades
>> before launching their efforts.

Ned:
> Yes, thank you for clearly identifying the reason why teachers
> and authority must be rejected.  The potential for abuse is so
> overwhelming that any benefit pales in comparison.  And that is
> why the last words out of Buddha's mouth, on his death bed, were:
>
>                  "Be a lamp unto yourself."
>

David:
> And how do you take that statement? From the lips of someone who 
> spent his life teaching the cause of suffering was selfish desire?
> 

  An honest appraisal that the source of much of suffering is
  people's mindless, slavish allegiance to manipulative lying 
  bastards, and the recognition that his (Buddha's) religion 
  would be perverted and abused by that same crowd EXACTLY
  like every other religion on earth has been?

  Pretty good marching orders, actually.  He is saying, imo,
  No matter what _I_ say, no matter what anybody says I say,
  if the result is not illumination within YOU, then forget it.

> If he would have said: "Be a lamp unto the world." would it have
> a different meaning than "Be a lamp unto yourself?"
> 

  Not if you see the world as your self:

         "Those who treasure the world as their self,
          may be entrusted with the world.
          If we see the world as our self,
          then within our self there is only the world."

                                - Tao Teh Ching, #13

  So, are you throwing in the towel and becoming a Taoist? (or
  at least accepting the half of your Zen Buddhism that already
  is Taoism!)

                                             Ned

(P.S. Like fish in a barrel!)