From owner-fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Fri Dec 22 04:25:54 1995 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA18357 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 1995 04:25:54 -0800 Received: from Cmns.Think.COM.Think.COM (Cmns.Think.COM [131.239.2.100]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA09037 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 1995 04:25:53 -0800 Received: by Cmns.Think.COM.Think.COM (4.1/Ultrix2.4-C) id AA07185; Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:45:42 EST From: nagasiva Message-Id: <199512221211.EAA16760@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Emulation/Salvation and Will (Was Re: Will and Christian Magick) To: fiatlvx@cmns.think.com (Christian Magick Elist) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 04:11:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Kenneth Udut" at Dec 20, 95 11:32:38 pm Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3024 Sender: owner-fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Status: RO kaliyuga 49951222 |From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Kenneth Udut) |Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:32:38 -0500 [Mark] |>...to _become_ Jesus, Lord and Saviour. |>...by repentance (literally, "turning") and by the power of the breath |>of God (or Spirit) within us, we continually strive to align ourselves with |>the Godhead through the person of Christ, always seeking to act in unison |>with the continual action of God. In doing so, we become Christlike, or -- |>depending on your use of terms -- we actually become Christ. Through that process, yes, and some feel that this turning includes what is called 'witnessing', which I gather is essential to martyrdom, though I'm only beginning to understand it. |...I see myself as trying ...to become more Christ-like each day. You might enjoy a book called _Lost Christianity_, by Jacob Needleman. In it he describes some of the pitfalls on the journey of emulation. The author's thesis includes, if my memory serves, the notion that the endpoint may not be the same as the process, and that we may not benefit from trying to reproduce the results rather than to engage the journey which the life of Our Lord implies through metaphor (thus the emphasis on parable as His method of instruction). I.e. trying to be *Christ-like* may not lead to the same place as Jesus and may actually prove impossible. In our yearning to reproduce the state we may bypass the process which will lead us to it. Siezing on the glory of Salvation, we try to achieve it when in fact it may be graced unto us only as a result of our repentance and patient endurance. Compare this with the path described by the Buddha. Traditional teachings do not indicate to me that Salvation is had through the attempted reproduction of the Savior's life (an impossible task for all of us who acknowledge we are not ourselves the Sons of God issued forth from the Godhead). Instead a mystery is presented in the story of the Lord, and especially in His teachings, and how these may be applied fruitfully in our lives. A path is clearly laid out within the Gospels, isn't it? Something about selling all one has, and giving proceeds to the impoverished, becoming as the little child, things like that. I'd love to hear these elaborated, as I think they may be important preparation for magical work. [re: the Will of God] |...they're just helpful concepts for a reality that is beyond complete |understanding. We can try, but it's more important to get in synch with |it, rather than worrying about its nature. Yes, several times my teachers have indicated to me that understanding the mechanics of the interaction is less important than direct application of the principles themselves, coming to 'know' it through experience rather than merely through our heads. |Listowner of the Minister's Discussion List If you'd like to say something about this elist, I'd like to hear more about it. Thank you for your time. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nagasiva