Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.christnet,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian Subject: JSmith: Hebrew Bible and Xtian OT Date: 29 Aug 1996 08:38:29 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 45 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <504dhl$82i@jobe.shell.portal.com> Reply-To: Jeffrey Smith NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.magick.tyagi:10198 alt.christnet:137504 talk.religion.misc:237904 alt.religion.christian:144348 [from email: Jeffrey Smith ] I'm Jewish. So for me the Bible means what is called in Xtian parlance, the Old Testament, or more euphemistically the Hebrew Bible, according to the Masoretic text. The latter is an important point. There are several dozen places in which the Xtian version diverges seriously from the traditional Hebrew, or in which the Xtian translators have adopted language that is no borne out by the traditional Hebrew text. Psalm 22 is one place that comes to mind: what the King James Version turns into a blow by blow account of a crucifixion (and thus by implication of the Nazarene's crucifixion), is in reality a much more poetic description of abandonment and despair. The handiest way of looking at it would be the Jewish Publication Society translation, entitled Tanach: The Holy Scriptures, although there are dozens of other sources that would repay study. I might also add that the Hebrew Bible orders the books differently from the Xtian version. Torah--Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Prophets--Joshua Judges Samuel Kings Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel The Twelve Writings--Psalms Proverbs Job Song of Songs Ruth Lamentations Ecclesiastes Esther Daniel Ezra/Nehemiah Chronicles This ordering gives a different dynamic, as well as subtle differences: you will note, for instance, that the Armageddon calculations of Daniel are in a different category from the oracles of Jeremiah, and that Lamentations is an independent work, not just an appendix to a prophet. Etc. I do draw attention like this as a way of poking holes in assumptions and cultural training. Most Thelemites speak of the New Testament as part of the Bible, even if they have thrown Xtianity in the garbage; implying that 1) the Xtian version is the correct version of the Bible and 2) that "Old Testament" and "New Testament" form some sort of united work. Of course, half of the time they don't even know they are doing it, so used are they to the cultural baggage of Xtianity. Jeffrey Smith f901030k@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us He must magnify sorrow in his heart, set a tempest whirling in his thoughts, and sigh in bitterness of heart. -----R. Yonah of Gerona, Gates of Repentance, Gate I, 12 -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to email ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cuckaracha Humana * * *