Path: kudonet.com!news.scruz.net!garlic.com!fox.almaden.ibm.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!207.22.81.9!europa.clark.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!br996 From: br996@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (K. Christine Callaghan) Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: JWs Commit Suicide Date: 9 Apr 1997 23:01:21 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 64 Message-ID: <5ih741$kql@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <5i9nn4$ufm$1@news.latrobe.edu.au> <5icd3q$t1b@legends.cet.com> <334A82B1.55C6@intrex.net> <334BAF80.3E6@iag.net> Reply-To: br996@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (K. Christine Callaghan) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: br996@freenet3.carleton.ca (K. Christine Callaghan) Nathan Riech (riech@iag.net) writes: > If that were true you might have sen it on the news, especially > considering how retarded the local stations get with stupid stories like > that. Nathan, you silly thing... the reasons it *doesn't* make headlines are very simple: 1. the deaths do not take place in aggregations, they happen *one*body*at*a*time* *in*various*hospitals* *in*various*cities* *over*several*decades* 2. hospitals do not attribute the cause of these deaths to religious beliefs or the medical directives attached to them -- more often than not, a patient who dies as a result of refusal of a blood transfusion are attributed to the *physical* cause of death, such as "irreversible shock", "heart failure", "massive hemorrhage", etc. 3. it is difficult for people who are interested in these cases to find statistics on the numbers of deaths attributed to refusal of blood products on religious grounds, although I have a strong feeling that WTS headquarters keeps a record of the number of martyrs they have for their cause. > And you dont get "suicide cards", they are no blood cards, for no > blood transfusions They aren't "no blood cards". They are called Advance Medical Directives. They are legal documents that states that you do not wish to have blood products even if they are necessary to save your life. Other people have similar Advance Medical Directives, such as Do Not Resuscitate orders, or Organ Donation Directives in the event that a person cannot be saved. The difference between the one JWs carry and the others, are that JWs essentially enter a suicide-pact with the Governing Body of the WTS, which is confirmed in writing by means of this Advance Medical Directive. The AMD also releases the GB from liability should untoward results occur from the individual's treatment [i.e., brain damage, impaired physical function of any sort] and delay caused by seeking alternative treatment, and resultant lack of oxygen to body tissues. The other difference is that JWs can become suspect by their congregation elders should they not have their AMD on their person at any given time. Persons who have reservations about signing their "no blood card" are subjected to peer pressure to conform, since the cards are distributed at a single meeting once a year, and are to be signed by the card holder and two witnesses [since it is a legal document] at the end of the meeting. Under such circumstances, it becomes questionable as to whether the person indeed signed of his/her own volition, but the time to debate that is not when the person is bleeding to death in the ER. > because taking in blood to the body is condemed in > the bible. Taking blood into the body BY EATING IT is condemned in the Bible, and only to the JEWS and to CHRISTIANS WHO MIGHT OFFEND JEWS BY EATING BLOOD IN THEIR PRESENCE. > Get you story straight. et tu, Nathan