From news.scruz.net!kudo20!tyagi Tue May 6 17:28:57 1997 Path: news.scruz.net!kudo20!tyagi From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc Subject: DWBurchell: Buddhism/Christianity ("Prayer Beads"/"Rosaries") Followup-To: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,alt.buddha,alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,alt.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc Date: 6 May 1997 14:37:44 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 81 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: References: <336C1B2E.78BE@nospam.servtech.com> Reply-To: kenb@nidlink.com (Kenneth W. Burchell) NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.227.52.9 Xref: news.scruz.net alt.magick.tyagi:11028 alt.christnet:226593 alt.religion.christian:216125 talk.religion.misc:267785 [from alt.buddha.short.fat.guy: kenb@nidlink.com (Kenneth W. Burchell)] In article , William_Gilders@brown.edu (Bill) wrote: > In article <336C1B2E.78BE@nospam.servtech.com>, Doug Schiffer > wrote: > > I recently saw some "rosary" prayer beads on the wall of a Chinese > > restaurant, and it got me to thinking of the relationship between the > > use of prayer beads in the Western Catholic church and in Buddhism. The > > obvious question arose: Who used them first, and who borrowed their use > > from the other? > > An encyclopedia I have gave that the Catholic church started using them > > in the 14th century - suspiciously close to the time of the visit to > > China by Marco Polo. > > Is there any evidence for the use of prayer beads in Buddhism, prior to > > 14th century? > Interesting question indeed! If your speculation about when the rosary > started to be used in Christianity is correct, then Buddhism clearly has > the head-start. Use of beads goes back quite a long time in India. They > are used in many Hindu traditions to count mantras and to keep the hands > occupied. I know that they go back in the Vaishnava tradition to at least > the 15th century C.E., and probably a thousand years before that. I > suspect that India gets the credit for transmitting the practice to China, > Tibet, Japan, etc., and also to the Middle East. It may be an "Aryan" > custom, since there seems to have been some use of beads in Zoroastrianism > (where I picked this up escapes me). Beads are used in Islam, either to > count devotional recitations (in Sufism and some Shi'a sects, plus by the > Baha'is) or just as 'worry beads', which men carry around and finger. > When I was in Palestine I saw virtually every Arab man holding a set, and > they were readily available in the market. > I cannot think of any evidence I have seen for the use of beads in ancient > Greek or Roman religion. They are also unknown in Judaism. This suggests > to me that the Christian practice didn't come from the Mediterranean. I > also don't think the Eastern Orthodox Church uses beads. So, the Marco > Polo idea sounds like it might have something going for it. > Be well, > Bill That is very simple indeed. There are, in fact, 108 beads in a "rosary" and 108 basic beads in the "jizu" or mala used in True Buddhism. The so-called Catholic Church borrowed them along with every last aspect of their practice from earlier more "eastern" practices such as trinitarianism, inscence, all of the fables of Jesus in the New Testament which were re-hashes of Mithraic, Zoroastrian and Egyptian beliefs that predate Christianity by thousands of years. The only ones who do not know that are the Christians. Isis, who wept for her son Osirus who died and was resurrected in three days, IS in fact Mary. And Mary/Isis-worship goes back to the earliest days of civilization. The cross comes from Adonis or Tammus - it is the symbol of his name. Christianity's plagiarism, re-hashing and abuse of these ancient, respectworthy teachings parallels the SGI's perversion of Nichiren's True Buddhism (Nichiren Shoshu) IMHO. -- Posted by Ken Burchell with best wishes to you all. For info on Thomas Paine: http://www.mediapro.net/cdadesign/paine For more information on Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism: http://www.primenet.com/~martman/ns.html http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~glenz/nikken.html http://www.angelfire.com/nd/NST/index.html http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/jqpublic/NShoshu1.html -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to author ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cucaracha Humana * * *