From: rose.dawn@ouroboros.org
Date: Tue, 07 May 96 13:49:17 
Subject: RE: RDAWN: RE: TANTRA
To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com

93 & Pranams,
  
Another one of those "file enclosed" thangz...here's my "file enclosed" reply.
  
93's & Namaskarams!
Tyagi quotes my Das-def' and goes on to say:
  
|>|_Kalidas_ is the gender-neutral form of either _Kalidasa_ <masc.> 
|>|or Kalidasi <fem.>, the "Kali" in this case being Kali Ma in  
|>|any/all ofHer 'forms.' _Das/a/i_ would be literally translated as 
|>|"slave,"although modern translators seem to often play a bit 
|>|loose, translating as the less-loaded term "servant of" or even  
|>|"devotee"or "follower" of, to avoid the negative associations  
|>|most of us would, consciously or otherwise, slap onto the word 
"slave." 
 
>'slave' has very wonderful negative connotations in regards 
>Thelema, in 'the slave of the slave-gods'.  this is likely my 
>preliminary repulsion, along with an indoctrination in school 
>rejecting the notion of slavery such that I've had to seriously 
>investigate the SMBD community in order (at least initially) to 
>understand what the Master-Slave relationship was like (varies, but 
>appears to be quite consensual in many cases)
  
I was kicked into an interesting line of COP-thought a while back by 
comments made by a scholarly-type Bro, who was translating the 
Stele of Revealing and several other Egyptian ritual texts at the time. 
According to him, you'll see the glyph translated as "slave" followed 
by the name of some god frequently; in this case "slave" is to be 
translated as "Prophet of {insert godname here}." Gave me a few 
different ideas NEwayz...the Prophets shall serve!
  
I think a _Das_ could often be a sort of prophet...Ramakrishna was a 
confirmed Kalidasa, and many would consider him to be a "Prophet" 
of Mahadevi. The SM community may well best approach the sort of 
ecstatic, willing, Joyous throwing-oneself-into type of Slavery I see 
implied in the term, as far as general western culture goes, since it 
*is* a loaded term, and I don't really see much in the way of western 
equivalent. Being a Devidas can be a consuming desperation, or an 
ecstatic abandon, or a giving-over of self to Self, but should always 
be an act of Liberation...I'd say giving over, & giving up, but NOT 
'giving in.'
  
|...Do you think Ramakrishna really considered _vira sadhana_ 
"dangerous"? 
|Or just more "difficult?" 

>I looked for the place in the Gospel where I thought he mentioned 
>the three styles of tantric discipline/devotion (animal, heroic and 
>divine, to which you also refer as 'pasu'/animal).  For some reason I 
>got the  impression that the relationship of Lover was in some way 
>mixed up with 'heroic' tantric exercises and was said to be more 
>difficult or  dangerous, probably involving challenging 
>entanglements (children for  one). ;>
  
On 2nd thought, I don't believe distinction was made between 
'difficult' and 'dangerous,' by Ramakrishna or most other respected 
teachers of his time <or by most authors of the Tantras, for that 
matter>. With the emphasis by most traditions on either _Sahajoli_ or 
_Amaroli_ being mastered completely before literal, physical 
_maithuna_ was attempted, I think conception was a rather less 
frequent 'complication' than one might expect! Certain texts, notably 
the _Hevajra_, recommended that the yogi approach _maithuna 
sadhana_ with the assistance of a non-corporeal female partner as 
well, in which case any resultant 'offspring' would not take the form 
of human infants.
  
|We could probably each quote a zillion scriptural descriptions of the 
|"best" <read: easiest> yogas for the Kali Yuga, and many of them 
would 
|be diametrical opposites. I guess most would agree that for a _pasu_, 
|everything save blind obedience or almost desperate _bhakthi_ is 
|"dangerous."
  
>yes, I imagine that the condition or quality of a persons' character 
>would be primary in determining what is difficult/dangerous and 
>what is not.  this is part of the benefit of surveying a broad range of
>systems of aspiration, seeing relationships amongst cultural 
>features and mystical disciplines, beginning to sift out the form of a 
>discipline from its effect, recognizing the categories of states of 
>consciousness  alongside the mythos which point to them, and 
>finding or creating one's  own keyset.
  
Ideally, the _guru_ would assign practices based upon his/her 
intimate knowledge of the student's character, _samskaras_, spiritual 
condition, etc.; thus, the emphasis on _guru/sisya_ protocol, and 
repeated emphasis on the need for a _satguru_ to guide one, 
especially in the 'dangerous' paths. Sifting the form from its effect, 
and attempting to separate 'cultural' from 'spiritual' can be difficult 
at best with *any* system--I think very near impossible with much 
of the broad spectrum of beliefs and practices under the umbrella 
"Hinduism." I suppose attempting to become a Vedic-scholar-by-
default, so to speak, may be the only real way to accomplish this.
  
As a youngster I was very taken with tradition, orthodoxy <even in 
the unorthodox>, discipline, and alla dat. In my dotage, I've gotten 
bolder--many would say lazier, I'm sure. More eclectic and 
experimental, at any rate!
  
|...unable--or unwilling--to identify as Siva, much less 
|Ardhanarisvara. 
  
>this I can understand.  who or what is Ardhanarisvara?
  
The "Half Female Lord," depicted as Siva on the right and Sakthi on 
the left, or Siva-as-Parasakthi from a Saiva standpoint. With many 
traditions, such identification is either *the* major goal, or a very 
important identification on the way to others, such as _Paramesvara_ 
and _Sadasiva_ <also sometimes seen as synonymous with 
_Ardhanarisvara_>.
  
|..."1. When one hungers and thirsts and does not practice enjoyment; 
|that is an Initiation (_Diksa_). 
  
>interesting.  typically I call that (when intentional, not merely
>procrastination :>) *discipline*, and I mean by this a self-instruction,
>in this case of ascetic means (perhaps others have called it practice 
>or _sadhana_?)
  
I seem to have been quoting the _Chandogya Upanisad_. In that 
particular instance, an individual's life-actions are compared to the 
Soma sacrifice. Before one is permitted to take part in same, s/he 
<well, *he*, but we're being kinda modern!> must be consecrated & 
initiated, and fasting & austerities are practiced during the first 
stage, or preparation for his/her initiation.
  
|4. Austerity, charity, the yamas and niyamas; 
  
>the last two terms sound very familiar,but as yet I don't understand
>them and can't find them in glossaries of the books I have to hand
>regarding tantra or Indian language.  my apologies if have been
>inattentive.
  
Meaning roughly, "the restraints" <yama> and the "beyond restraints" 
<niyama>, yama/niyama are the first two "limbs" of _astanga_ <eight-
limbed> yoga. You'll find them discussed in Patanjali's _Yoga Sutras_, 
the _Hathayoga Pradipika_, and numerous less-well-known 
Scriptures...also in Crowley's _8 Lectures on Yoga_. Ironically, my 
own Beloved Teacher's explanation of the yamas/niyamas was far 
closer to that given by AC, than that given by many of the 
scholar/teachers undertaking T&C, in that he stressed--commanded, 
actually--the student's arriving at his/her own interpretation of how 
these were to be carried out, rather than following blindly a didactic 
interpretation given by a human _guru_. It remains one of the most 
precious gifts I carry with me from my time as _sisyani_.
  
|It wouldn't be scripturally unsound <g> to think of any act, 
|including the supposedly "grossest" as a _yajna_ or form of _puja_ 
|with oneself as _pujari_, as long as _Tyaga_, the sacrificial 
|*intent* is there. ...
  
>what is the best way to be sure about this 'intent'?  could one 
>deceive oneself, especially when the worship benefits one sensually 
>(making up good food and feeding deity for prasad so as to gain 
>merit or enjoy the good tastes oneself, possible examples)?
  
I'm sure one could, and I'm sure many do. _Pujaris_ usually expect to 
be well-compensated in *some* way for their roles, and there are 
entire scriptures devoted to guru-sisya protocol, including gifts, 
obeisance, etc. When one takes the place of _pujari_ oneself, I 
suppose the only way to be sure of the intent is to be ruthlessly 
honest and self-reflective. Course, if one is at the state where non-
duality is a reality  ;>  then the more one enjoys, the greater the 
enjoyment of _Devata_, so one would treat oneself *only* to the best! 
Personally, I don't worry much about it. The sense of love, devotion, 
ecstatic communion with divinity is so totally unmistakable, that if 
it's there, it's THERE, and if the specific action benefits me sensually 
and/or materially as well as 'spiritually'...well, so much the better!
  
|>|Generally, four things are still "required" to make a "proper" 
|>|yajna if one wants to be traditional: 
|>|	_Dravya_, the "substance," that which is sacrificed;
|>|	_Tyaga_, the "sacrificial intent," the attitude of giving 
|>|	         something--or everything--to the yajna recipient; 
|>|	_Devata_, the divine recipient ItSelf; and 
|>|	_Mantra_, which is fairly self-explanatory.

|I'd say practical as well as devotional results is eminently 
|"orthodox."  
|..._Prathana_, personal benefit, is a traditional part of the _Puja_ 
|ritual. ...The money is thus the blessing of the Devata at the 
|conclusion of the rite.
  
>how then can one be sure that the proper sacrificial intent is 
>present? are there personal signs to be aware of that come from 
>Indian tradition or your experience outside that?
  
The _Dharma Sastras_ state that *all* _yajna_ must be "tempered in 
the fire-pit of kundalini, nurtured by the sakthi of jivayajna" in 
order to be a "true sacrifice." I'm not aware of any signs that this is 
so which are explicitly set forth in scripture. I believe the _guru_ is 
mostly the authority one is to turn to in *all* such matters. Some of 
the practical signs aren't easily accessed in 20th century urban 
settings...ie, preparing a wonderful _prasad_ and looking forward to 
its deliciousness, while being fully prepared to instead serve it to any 
hungry person, or animal, that happens to show up at the door at the 
conclusion of the rite and *not* eat it oneself. Maybe my habit of 
throwing change on the altar, collecting it in dire straits, and using it 
would show the proper intent if I were approached by a panhandler 
on the way to the grocery store or something, and sharing or giving it 
all away. Again, though, as a householder, my first duty is to my 
family, and at this point _Artha_ is itself part of my prescribed 
_Dharma_, as is _Kama_. I could easily be fooling myself, but feel 
that my own circumstances having been repeated cycles of gain, loss, 
acceptance, and starting over from the git, are evidence that I'm 
willing to, can, have, and probably will again, lose accustomed 
financial security and small joys without any real sense of *loss*.
  
[|...I've "experienced" Kali as an actual discarnate Being; 
|as a form of _brahman_ <actually, impossible, but hopefully 
|you'll understand what I mean>; 

>re: the last, I do at times understand Kali to be a manifestation of 
>the perfection of brahman, a flimsy symbol to my ignorant
>consciousness which tends to perceive things best as persons.
> perhaps this is what you mean
  
If not, then it's close enough!  ;>
  
|...a _Camiyata_-style experience of "possession." 

>what is 'Camiyata-style'?  I have only heard of African-derived and 
>spiritualist possession.
  
A Tamil term; _Cami_ <'lord, deity'> + _ayattam_ <'dance,' 'dancer'>. A 
_Camiyati_ is a 'god dancer' or 'one who dances with god.' It's usually 
a hereditary position, though not exclusively. There are schools of 
Tamil Hindus who experience _Camiyata_ fairly frequently, often 
during festivals, sometimes spontaneously, and are 'possessed' or 
indwelt by Divinity, for various reasons which usually include at 
least to some extent, acting as the deity's spokesperson. The 
spontaneous variety, interestingly, most often involves Kali, Who 
evidently is no respecter of hereditary 'right' or 'duty' to act in such 
a manner, and will seize anyone She deems 'proper,' 'worthy,' or 
merely 'convenient' at the time.  :>
   
|Perhaps the release you mention above is similar to the concept of 
|"surrender," during the _yoga pada_, the "foot," "part" or "stage" 
|of "union," when one surrenders without any sense of submission, 
|the self to the self, culminating in the _sakha marga_, path of 
|the friend. 

>this is often my surrender, yes, especially when I make a discipline 
>to bow when leaving and/or entering the temple.  there is 
>something very liberating about throwing myself before Kali's altar
  
Everything I do is concluded with _Pranama_, and I find it liberating 
and powerful as well--usually.
  
|...Saiva Siddhantha tradition describes the _Padas_ as 
|leading to natural _margas_, paths, defined by the way the 
|individual experiences god at those stages: _Das Marga_, when one 
|experiences god as a slave would look upon a master; __Satputra 
|Marga_, the path of the "true child," as one would look upon a 
|loving and beloved parent; __Sakha Marga_ in which god is one's 
|longtime close pal; and _San Marga_, or "True" or "Eternal" Path, 
|wherein one moves from viewing god-as-Lover, to god-as-Self, 
|which is where all the identification/annihilation stuff comes in.  ;>
  
>at times I wonder whether all of these are not merely the exercise 
>of particular capacity (perhaps 'agape') of love toward kin, and we 
>are given encouragement to test out brittle wings of our heart and, 
>later, expand this to all relationships, all directions, in different 
>character as the particular circumstance demands.
  
Very possibly. I suspect Ramakrishna wouldn't disagree. In some 
traditions, it's the way the guru/student relationship is expected to 
progress as well...from Master/obedient disciple through stages 
leading up to <ideally> that of "brother gods."
  
|...While I'm prone to occasional bhaktifits  ;>  it's not often 
|that I engage in anything resembling self-humiliation, or even 
|ego-destruction. As a _grihasthini_, or householder, it's not 
|yet my _dharma_ to do so.  ;>
  
>I'd like to know more about this division of _grihasthini_ and 
>whether you speak of a progression sometimes elaborated in my 
>college classroom and academic books: student, householder,
>forest-dweller and sannyasin.
  
That'd be it. _Grihastha_ is part of the concept known as _Asrama 
Dharma_, the Dharma of one's "place" or "stage of life." Traditionally, 
"proper" ages have been assigned to the four stages, but 
circumstances are being given more weight these days. 
_Brahmacarya_, or the 'student' stage, and _Grihastha_, the 
'householder' stage are said to be the _pravritthi marga_, literally the 
path of the 'ultimate whirlpool,' the path of activity, of using the 
forces of desire and ambition to live one's life. _Vanaprastha_ <which 
could be literally translated as 'forest dweller,' but a more accurate 
sense of meaning is conveyed through the term 'elder advisor' in 
which one retains one's worldly duties while gradually moving 
toward a state of readiness for the final stage>--that being, o'course, 
_sannyasa_, renunciation. _Vanaprastha_ and _Sannyasa_ are called 
the _nivrittthi marga_, the path of being 'beyond the whirlpool.'
   
|Kirtan, bhajans, japa, and even asana have led me to states of 
|ecstatic trance. I'm apt to wander off into _samadhi_ at the drop 
|of a hat, though, and have to learn to restrain myself rather than 
|to let go.  ;>  The sense of complete immersion, unity with Kalika 
|Mahadevi, has come most frequently--not surprisingly--for me 
|during and/or after sexual union, whether explicitly ritualized, 
|or simply a Most Excellent Fuck. 
  
>I have heard of samadhi in relation to Sri Ramakrishna also.  As you 
>say you've experienced it, could you say something about how it 
>*feels* (or doesn't, as the case may be), what you remember of it, 
>how others describe you when you are in it, etc.?
  
There's a lot of variance, depending on circumstance. I've never 
gotten past what's described as _savikalpa samadhi_ or _samadhi 
saguna_, _samadhi_ "with form," "with qualities," or "conscious 
samadhi," to the theoretical ideal of _nirvikalpa samadhi_ or 
_samadhi nirguna_, that without form, quality, or consciousness. The 
best analogy I can think of at the moment is a similar sense of 
simply 'being' a 'quality' rather than 'having' or 'feeling', attained 
sometimes when frying with really good hallucinogenic drugs <it's 
been a while, but the general sense of the latter is something I still 
remember!>.
  
The only time this state has manifested around others has been in 
the context of lovemaking, in which instances it seems I actually 
have 'gone away' in some sense, coming to with a feeling of bliss 
<sorry for the trite term> and apparently having muttered 
unintelligible wisdom/nonsense in various weird pretzelized 
postures with eyes-rolled-back-in-head--LOL! During intense 
_asana_ practice, I can feel it coming on, when first the sense is that 
my body is sinking into the floor, then expanding outward to the 
corners of the room and beyond, then the sense of physical gradually 
diminishes and disappears, till the 'being in asana' becomes 'being 
asana' and then just 'being...{blank}.'  ::shrug:: I dislike mysto-
mumbo-jumbo, but find myself using it when something's difficult to 
describe. With _japa_, most often, the approach begins with the 
mantra/mudra sequences becoming 'mechanical,' with 'sounds' and 
'gestures' seemingly 'performing themselves' through me, rather 
than me saying/doing them. In these instances, the sensation of 
being fully 'aware' of 'self' and no 'not-self' and revelling therein is 
usually accompanied by very vivid auditory and visual 
hallucinations <or visions, or direct communication with Divinity, take 
yer pick!>, something I either haven't experienced or don't remember 
with the other forms.
  
At times I suspect I'm a 'natural sannyasini' <at other times, I 
suspect I'm just slightly whack, heh heh>. I have family, friends, 
lover, job, active social life, & alla dat, but draw real strength through 
self-willed isolation, dis-connection, and aloneness. The 'cave up in 
the hills' is at times a draw I have to actively fight against. I've come 
to believe that the renunciate path actually IS the EASIER one, and to 
respect *successful* 'householder yogi/nis' to an incredible degree.

|I should have added an "IMHO" after my own 
translation/commentary 
|on _Reta_, as I'm not a Vedic scholar, and thus, not properly 
|qualified to give T&C, other than to myself.

>to me it is all the same, as I locate the responsibility for checking 
>sources with the READER.  thank you for making your authority 
>known.  I'm sure I'd have to find a bigger method of indicating that, 
>like 'FOWKYOO' (From One Whose Knowledge Yields Only Onions)
  
Ha! I'm probably 'Diligently Ecstatic, Vastly Ignorant' or something.
  
|...also embarrassingly ignorant about most of the stuff I 
|prattled endlessly on about _vis_ "Tantra." 
  
>do you think this (students prattling on about what they know little)
>happens alot in tantric lineages?
  
Probably among students-not-born-into-the-Hindu-dharma-who-
have-computers-and-post-to-echos-and-newsgroups. In general--
hmm, I dunno. A distubring personal tendency of mine has been to 
yakk most when I understand least, possibly since every deepening 
of every little bit of actual *grokking* leads to lessening of pedantry 
and didacticism.
  
|...It may be a _Tyaga_ thang, with an inner attitude born of practice 
|or a natural tendency toward, I don't know which, to view the 
|"mundane" *as* "sacred," 
  
>I notice it is a recurrent tendency in my own approach to the 
>spiritual, and yet what everyone else has always meant by 
>'mundane' was the ordinary world, the world of going to school, 
>living in the middle-class, American doldrums of bored depravity.
  
I spoze I'd call 'mundane' that which is not *overtly* 'spiritual' or 
'magical.' I've never lived a typical American middle-class lifestyle!  
;>  
  
>our clique decided what was 'normal' or 'boring' and this was also 
>what so  very many of my friends meant by 'the mundane' or 
>'mundanity'.  it applied  to the domesticated animal nature in us, 
>predemonantly, I realized later, that herded feeling.  we were 
>controlled and guided, mundanity was the hand of somnambulance.
  
Very little of my life thus far has been 'normal' in the sense of 'usual' 
or 'average' or 'what the majority of goodfolx do.' Maybe that's why 
comparatively little of it seems to me to have been boring--more like 
a struggle/revelry cycle perhaps. I have had a strong sense of duty, 
but have derived great satisfaction, rather than a feeling of burden, 
from it.
  
|or it may be the "clicking" between myself and my present 
magical/mundane 
|partner, or something else entirely, but unfettered fucking seems to 
|have become mostly identical to formal _maithuna sadhana_ for me.

>perhaps the conditions being present we may reach similar states of  
>consciousness regardless of activity; perhaps the facility of returning  
>to desired states of consciousness portends a maturity of our 
>mechanism.  
>or maybe this is just becoming stuck on the physical plane. :>
  
My suspicion is that, if I'm fooling myself, I'm doing so neither more 
nor less than those who fool themselves through renunciation of 'this 
world,' practicing major austerities, and refusing the Gift of Maya...so 
be it.  :>
  
|>...reject 'goals' in the sexual interaction in favor of none at all, 
|>moving to the dance of our sincerety and mutual pleasuring and 
|>occasionally entering into trance-states or 'nonordinary states 
|>of consciousness' (even for sex) due to the way in which we 
|>merged and dallied.  The notion of 'using this energy' has always 
|>struck me as repulsive, ....
  
|I'm not sure what you mean by "using this energy." Toward a 
|*specific* goal, I spoze, but isn't mutual pleasure a "goal" itself? 
  
>I wouldn't say it has the same quality of a 'goal' as does something 
>like 'getting a new car' or 'finding that set of keys' or 'achieving the 
>Great Work' or whatever we may designate this sexual energy as 
>arrow to effect change, sent into the subconscious mind through the 
>vehicle of the body in ecstatic reverie at a heightened stage of  
>suggestability.
  
Not the same quality, no, but I personally don't distinguish between 
the goals as 'desireable' or 'repulsive.' Could be because mutual 
pleasure has always been a definite part of sexuality, ritualized or 
no, for me...not mutually exclusive. From an orthodox standpoint, I'm 
a crummy Tantrika, I guess.  :>

|..."yoga" and Hinduism in their broadest senses caught my interest. 
|...went to India, hung out in _asrams_, began laborious 
|transliterations/translations from the Sanskrit 
  
>I noticed the Sanskrit _underscores_.  rationale for that?  emphasis 
>on nonEnglish text?  are there as many Sanskrit scriptures as there  
>are Buddhist sutras (more than can ever be read by one person)?
  
Since I've been making my living for some time as a freelance writer 
with a steady supply of 'journalistic' work, yes, the habit of italicizing 
<or underscoring in this case> any non-English words and phrases is 
an ingrained one. Especially in the case of transliterated 
words/phrases from non-roman script. I'd say at least as many 
Sanskrit scriptures, but of course, the more 'modern' scriptures have 
been composed in Sanskrt in accordance with tradition as well as the 
ancient ash- or berryjuice on leaf, ancient sacred texts.
  
|<did I mention laziness? I'm *still* studying the Devanagari script, 
|and am not yet at the point where translation is anything remotely 
|like easy!|, 
  
>hmmm, that doesn't sound 'lazy' to me at all, though I think I know 
>what you are getting at.  what would you consider to be 'not lazy' or 
>'to be doing exactly the perfect and blossoming work of a Tyaga'?  
>doing more intense practices?
  
Since lack of self-discipline is a quality I recognize in myself, I tend 
to ride myself ruff sometimes, just to guard against it. Outwardly, I'm 
actively engaged, but when I have to kick myself in the ass six-
ways-to-Sun-day, I consider it laziness. Not intensity of practices, but 
intensity of effort required to get myself into them regularly and 
thoroughly would be my personal gauge, I think.
  
|when I asked permission <LOL!> to initiate into the O.T.O., did 
|not obtain same, and decided to go ahead NEwayz. I still have 
|nothing but the utmost respect, love, and gratitude toward my 
|Beloved Teacher, and in fact, have been in contact several times 
|since the--change?--in the status of our relationship. 

[from previous:]
|...The "formal conclusion" of the guru/sisya relationship came about, 
  
>on account of your involvement with Thelema, or some other 
>reason?
  
It was one of several catalysts, but truly the result of my own desire 
to be free to make my own discoveries, mistakes, etc., without 
outside guidance, even wonderful, trusted outside guidance. I'm still 
not sure if it was a matter of maturity, or of IMmaturity--belated 
'rebellion,' having missed all that 'normal adolescent' stuff thru not 
having a normal adolescence!--but it seems to be working fine for 
me, so no regrets <well--sometimes fleeting ones>.
  
|...Being a "Dharma-freak" instead of a "karma <sic> junkie," I was 
|attracted by the idea of personal responsibility, of action rather 
|than fear of consequences, and intrigued by what I perceived to be 
|parallels. I consider _Swadharma_ to be, *for me*, identical with 
|Thelema-as-Will. 
  
>does this mean that you tend to designate 'will' (true) versus 'want' 
>or 'whim'?  is there svadharma and asvadharma? :>
  
There are so many types of _Dharma_ it'd take this many pages 
again just to describe em all! A couple def's of _dharma_ as general 
concept that I like are "the *orderly* fulfillment of an inherent 
nature" and "modes of thought and action most conducive to the 
individual's advancement." Svadharma would be 'personal dharma,' 
dependent upon each individual's own characteristics, tendencies, 
emotional-mental-psychological makeup, personal pref's and dislikes, 
alla dat. I do make distinctions between Will and whim, although I 
don't get moralistic about fulfilling whims or choosing not to, with 
myself or NE-1 else. My association of Thelema with Svadharma, or 
Agape with Prema, fer-instance, is my own interpretation, based 
mostly on an intuitive feeling of 'rightness' *for me*.
  
|...five years ago, I was diagnosed with a Central Nervous 
|System disorder similar to M.S., which at this point is incurable, 
|progressive, debilitating, and ultimately fatal. 
  
>my sympathies.  you appear to be weathering it quite well thusfar.
  
Heh...I have my moments! Self-pity and wallowing are, for me, not 
real 'choices,' since they do no good, tho being human I whine 
sometimes. The only two real choices seem to me to be living as 
productively and joyously as possible, and dying, which I've 
reserved <per _Liber Oz_!> for either 'when it comes' or 'when no 
productivity or joy are left,' something I don't see occuring anytime 
soon. We'll see.  :>
  
|...BTW, my "conclusions" about Life, the Universe, and Everything 
|<g> have changed since then--several times. At this point, my 
|conclusions about almost everything are "I dunno, I don't think 
|it's possible to know, and that won't interfere with my doing what 
|needs to be done, what wants to be done, what will be done."::shrug::
  
>talking is fine, now I'm walking this way, thanks.   I think I got ya.
  
I still speculate, still form 'tentative conclusions.' I *don't* allow fear 
of consequences to rule my life to the point of inaction, a tendency 
among noo-agers that irks me probably a lot more than it should.
  
|...have chosen to focus more intently on the more lasting fancies.  :>
    
>like what?  You mean yoga and Thelema here?  Or long-term 
>relationships, or something altogether different that I missed?
  
All the above. There flat isn't time to investigate everything that 
catches my eye, so I reserve the time & energy I have for those 
things...*any* things...that intrigue on deeper levels. Yoga, Thelema, 
family, friends, certain personal 'causes'...any & all of which have 
shifted in their levels of importance to me. I've burned at least as 
many bridges as I've built, and only recently come to the realization 
that sometimes bridges can simply be left in place to walk across 
occasionally without being razed *or* constructed from scratch.  ;>
  

|...it's getting just a *bit* easier as I make studying Sanskrit a 
|personal _sadhana_. ...
  
>that is marvellous.  I have considered it myself and have enjoyed 
>what little I've gleaned from brief investigations.  thanks for the 
>recommendations on reference.  lovely.
  
Seems to be fun as well as prophet-able, but then I'm a certified 
member of the 'Odd Squad,' so I dunno what that means!  ;>
  
aum krim namah kaliya
  
Namah Durga Amatri!
  
>nagasiva
  
RD