From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri May 10 14:31:58 1996 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA10067 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 14:31:58 -0700 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA15883 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 14:31:56 -0700 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00293; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to tariqas-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id RAA00282; Fri, 10 May 1996 17:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08965; Fri, 10 May 1996 16:55:26 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA11933 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:54:00 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id NAA07617 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 10 May 1996 13:53:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199605102053.NAA07617@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Separation of Sexes in Religion To: tariqas@world.std.com (Tariqas Elist) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO 49960510 (on the subject of separation of men and women in religious practice) assalam alaykum, my kin! Mike Granger quoted an unknown individual: |Why is it so easy to pigeonhole women with the same stereotype, but |happily, no one in his or her right mind would advocate the same view |with respect to race? Perhaps it relates to what LIla wrote recently.... Lilyan Ila |...the fallacy that only men have historically been 'leaders & shapers of |society'. If it appears to be so, it is surely because 'history' has and |continues to be selectively presented.... Besides the obvious racism and bigotry which inhabits cultural centers of immigration and competition (Pacific Rim regions, for example, where I live in the US -- CA -- are becoming some of the most diversified and so this kind of bigotry breaks down as does the society). Maybe the reason women are pigeonholed with the stereotype is that it is easier to deal with them that way (by not doing so). MSiddiqui quotes Sheikh Nazim regarding separation of women and men in salat: |Mawlana Shaykh Nazim then went on to ask the interviewer the question: | | "If you say you never saw it in your religion, why did they | build priories for nuns and monasteries for monks?" Sufis maintain that sufism does not support the type of ascetic monasticism which is being referred to here. The intent was a kind of seclusion from the world which Sufis often eschew (esp. longterm). As a means of temporary regrouping or reservation (I forget the Arabic term to which Sheikh Hisham referred when I visited his lovely center), withdrawal is compared to the plant which requires concealment (perhaps 'taqiyya') temporarily so as to protect its new shoots. Yet, is this the justification being used for separation during salat? Sheikh Nazim seems to be trying to draw out a parallel which extends only so far. Yes, there were divisions, but these were for people (and still are!) whose practices of withdrawing from society constitute a potentially *permanent* condition. In some ways I can see the parallel clearly. Religion: sex-separation, a type of withdrawal for the purposes of interacting with Allah most directly. And yet it has never been my understanding that the type of separation implied and practiced within Christian monasticism was of a similar calibre to that witnessed in mosques. Instead I would point to many Christian religous traditions which in fact separate the church in halves by sex, the pews of one side housing males, that of the other females. I'm sure this is a common practice for the reasons set forward above (likely within *many* religious traditions), and yet it is given particular emphasis in Islam I notice (sometimes involving entirely different worship areas or relegating the worship of women to the home). peace be with you, my kin. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah)