From yronwode@sonic.net Mon Dec 21 12:41:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub [208.201.224.8]) by Sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA27548 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:41:38 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (yronwode@bolt [208.201.224.36]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13428 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:41:37 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: (from yronwode@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA05021; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:41:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:41:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199812212041.MAA05021@bolt.sonic.net> To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com Subject: Jesus as a Telesmatic Image (was Re: Gods vs Goddesses) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #10 Status: RO >Path: ultra.sonic.net!jupiter.dnai.com!uunet!in5.uu.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!howland.erols.net!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail >From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) >Newsgroups: alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.mythology,alt.christnet,alt.legend >Subject: Re: Jesus as a Telesmatic Image (was Re: Gods vs Goddesses) >Date: 14 Dec 1998 13:42:01 -0600 >Organization: Access Internet Communications, Inc. >Lines: 72 >Sender: tyagi@accesscom.com >Message-ID: <753pji$n4f$1@shell.accesscom.com> >References: <74sagr$lm39@id4.nus.edu.sg> >Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com >NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.226.156.10 >NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:41:01 CDT >X-Trace: newscene.newscene.com 913664461 205.226.156.10 (Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:41:01 CDT) >X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) >Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tantra:7376 alt.magick:129001 alt.magick.tyagi:14928 alt.mythology:46433 alt.christnet:410405 49981214 IIIom Hail ICThYS! : #> ...according to the legend it was Jesus that was crucified on #> the cross. Jesus represents the material and it is the material #> that we must sacrifice to become spiritualized. A Son of #> God is an illuminated Soul and has conquered death. as if legend is necessary or monolithic. there are legends (Muslim) that Jesus wasn't actually crucified but substituted for symbolic (stage) value. I think that legends should be considered the fictions they are and analyzed based on motifs and similarities to other legends. this is what has been done by academics to folk and religious tales for centuries and it should not be omitted from the Christian tales merely because it may be one's favored religion. Polar Bear : # ...if we followed Jesus's way then we all become sons and # daughters of God. I like this formulaic approach to evaluating the stories about Jesus the Christ. it enables us to see clearly that they *are* stories, mysteries of import to the human species, and that they describe a role with respect to oneself and the rest of the species. in this way we can see that most of the world's religious innovators have been Christs (sages, saviors, prophets) doing about the same thing, instructing different formulae but serving as the same type of ideals. using Occam's razor, I feel that before a certain point in history all stories of Great Persons are better treated as myths (not dismissed as false but understood for the very real psychospiritual mystery that they have to teach us about ourselves and our global human culture) and separated from any single human organization or dispensation-scheme. the question then becomes: 'what is a "Child of God" and how does one become such a thing?' the answer can be discerned fairly easily by poring over one's favorite legends of individuals who can be associated with entry into this role (god, child of a god, emissary of a god, immortal, sage, savior, prophet, etc.). the New Testament (to remain true to the Subject-header here) has some very good descriptions in metaphor of how this can be done. I have set about this myself while isolating for esotericists everywhere the apparent, significant touch-points contained with the popular Jesus legends (there are of course others which the Christian establishment has rejected, and I recommend that these also be reviewed). you can find my analysis at: http://www.hollyfeld.org/Esoteric/Avidyana/Gnostik/ within the files containing the abbreviation "xtianmgk". # But Jesus is special in the sense that he was not merely # a son of God, but *the* Son of God, the second member # of the tripartite Jewish/Christian/Muslim God. only for devotionals who cannot see their way to approximating the divine themselves. it is a kind of fundamentalist dualism which does not admit of the identity between the worshipper and the worshipped. it serves the devotional and the Herd who wants the Elite to rule them, but those who are magical in their tendency (as were most of the prophets and sages by legendary accounts, natch ;>), will require less separation in order to attain to the mystical depths. nocTifer -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html