Path: Supernews70!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.order,alt.satanism Subject: JNorton: ToS, Abyssmal Destruction Date: 20 Dec 1997 14:17:34 -0800 Organization: Access Internet Communications, Inc. Lines: 86 Message-ID: <67hg5u$b2s$1@shell.accesscom.com> Reply-To: browe@ctd.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 9993@205.226.156.10 X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: Supernews70 alt.magick.tyagi:14505 alt.magick:120872 alt.magick.order:986 alt.satanism:82957 [technical difficulties enforced delay -- reformatted for your reading] [from thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org: Josh Norton ] At 12:40 PM 11/3/97 -0800, Fra. Doubt-Goat wrote: >93 > >---Tim Maroney wrote: >> Finally, here is (another) smoking gun to demonstrate that >> the Temple of Set interpretation of Crowley's view of the Abyss >> is mistaken. In the comment on II:8, he writes, >> "the annihilation of the ego in the Abyss is >> the condition of emancipating the true self, and >> exalting it to unimaginable heights." >> I doubt if anything would convince Michael Aquino >> on this point, but Crowley says directly (and not >> just here) that the ordeal of the Abyss is the >> exaltation of the true self, masquerading as >> the destruction of that which one has mistaken for >> it, rather than the utter and final self-destruction >> which Aquino insists was part of Crowley's system. Aquino has a longtime habit of misrepresenting other people's positions, so that he can demonstrate the "superiority" of his own view by knocking down the carefully-enfeebled false image. E.g., the bullshit description of "white magicians" that all his followers like to parrot. Gets rather tiresome, especially when he acts like he knows your own position better than you do yourself. Crowley's description (if you are quoting him accurately) is actually pretty good. Though from my own experience I would say that the key element is not the destruction of the "false Self" of Tiphereth and the Ruach, but rather that the awareness ceases to identify with and cling to it. Once the awareness stops supporting it, the elaborate structure of the individuality falls apart of its own accord, leaving a much smaller structure through which the transcended being can act in the world. No need to blast it apart. In a metaphor that occurred to me recently, you might liken the individual self and its appurtenances in the Ruach to the temporary scaffolding needed to build an arched bridge or viaduct. Once the final structure is completed, the scaffolding is no longer necessary, and can be disassembled. Whether what remains after this destruction qualifies as a True Self (tm) is open to question, IMO. "Selfness" seems rather a misnomer with respect to that state. >[Fra. Doubt-Goat] >This is very interesting. I've always seen the HGA >(i.e. Tiphereth) as the "true self." At the abyss, >the aspirant is abandoned by all, even his HGA. >Certainly, the annihilation of the ego is involved as >well, but I take this adventure to mean that ALL that >one is, including the "true self," is destroyed in >the successfull crossing of the abyss. On return, >the individual - including the ego - is reconstructed >with the addition of the universal experience. For another view of this process than A.C.'s, take a look at: http://w3.one.net/~browe/abyss2.htm If nothing else, it will show that there can be fairly wide variation in the way the process manifests in different people, and that A.C.'s version isn't the only way it can happen. Josh ------------------------ Reality leaves a lot to the imagination. -- John Lennon Josh Norton (aka Benjamin Rowe) -- browe@ctd.com or browe@one.net Magick code: MEN/AS QO++++ a+++ 666* S G Y W C N+++ POT Enochian Magick at http://w3.one.net/~browe ____________...oooOOO---thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To subscribe send: 'subscribe thelema93-l' to majordomo@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe send: 'unsubscribe thelema93-l' to majordomo@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/thelema93-l.phtml -- (emailed replies may be posted); http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi; 408/2-666-SLUG join the esoteric syncretism in alt.magick.tyagi; http://www.abyss.com/tokus