Path: newscene.newscene.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (hara) Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.occult Subject: The Jewish Roots of Kabbalah (was gematria discussion) Date: 15 Dec 1998 14:56:02 -0600 Organization: Access Internet Communications, Inc. Lines: 117 Sender: tyagi@accesscom.com Message-ID: <756ibd$ptm$1@shell.accesscom.com> References: <199812142104.NAA30930@shell.accesscom.com> <75454c$l3q$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3676C326.6A7E@luckymojo.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.226.156.10 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:55:28 CDT X-Trace: newscene.newscene.com 913755328 205.226.156.10 (Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:55:28 CDT) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: newscene.newscene.com alt.magick:196823 alt.magick.tyagi:19585 alt.pagan.magick:17553 alt.occult:221 49981215 IIIom catherine yronwode : >...The Kaballah *IS* Jewish in root, origin, core, and sum. I have said as much, yes. the Hermetic qabalah is not, however. in fact I think there are valuable questions to ask about the 'root' of these mystical tradition (so much so that I have to couch my words like 'appears'). I omit the balance of your text for lack of time (I hope that my subsequent response to occult/Tim was more clear to you) and provide this text in response to your request for an assertion about the nonJewish roots of some aspect of kabbalah (gematria): I liked "The Pythagorean Tarot: An Interpretation of the Major and Minor Arcana on Pythagorean and Alchemical Principles", by John Opsopaus ( copyright 1996 at the following URL: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/ enough to print out a great quantity of it and discuss it with friends. I am not sure that it is wholly accurate, but the author appears to be substantiating many of his claims with citations to reputable books (Fideler, for example). of which what follows is a brief excerpt on kabbalah (Jewish QBL) and gematria (which Mr. Opsopaus claims was used by a variety of cultures -- my main contention when posting to the Occult Elist and responding to "occult" (american@qabalah.com), as we were talking about gematria until "occult" brought up kabbalah, which I have always agreed is Jewish in manifestation and by name). I'd love to hear the review of those more wide-read than myself with an acute analysis of his sources and assertions: [from http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#archetypes ] Finally, we have to consider the Qabalistic use of gematria: the esoteric interpretation of Hebrew words by means of the numerical values of their letters. This is not a major part of traditional tarot interpretation, but it is a standard esoteric technique, so I have used it to reinforce the symbolic analyses of the trumps. However, since I have used isopsephia ("Greek gematria") rather than the better known gematria based on the Hebrew alphabet, a few words of explanation are necessary. There are several reasons for this. First, an analysis based on the Greek alphabet is more appropriate to a Pythagorean tarot than one based on the Hebrew alphabet since, presumably, that is the alphabet Pythagoras would have used for isopsephia. Second, there is considerable evidence that the Hebrew practice is later than the Greek and probably derived from it. We'll consider the evidence briefly. First, the Greek use of their alphabet for numeration goes back at least to the end of the fourth century BCE, whereas use of the Hebrew alphabet for numeration goes no earlier than the end of the second century BCE (Ifrah, chs. 16, 17). Indeed, Fideler (75) argues that the standard spellings of the Greek gods' names were formulated according to isopsephic principles under the influence of the Pythagorean League c. 500 BCE. He further argues (216-9) that many Greek temples, such as the Parthenon (447 BCE) and Apollo's temple at Didyma (300 BCE), were constructed isopsephically. The Greeks may have learned the idea from the Babylonians, who as early as the eighth century BCE constructed buildings according to an isopsephia based on their syllabic writing system. Second, the only explanation for the word gematria is that it derives from the Greek word gametria, which is an alternative spelling for geometria, "geometry," but literally, "land surveying" (LSJ s.v. gametria, geometria; OED s.v. gematria). This is suggestive of its use (in Greece, Babylonia and perhaps other places) for laying out temples and other important buildings. Third, the archaic Greek alphabet had 27 letters; thus it divided naturally into three Enneads (groups of 9), which were assigned to the numbers 1-9, 10-90 and 100-900 in order. A B G D E F Z E Q I K L M N X O P q R S T U F C Y W 3 The later alphabet dropped one letter from each group (F q 3), resulting in three Ogdoads (groups of eight), which was also considered to be esoterically significant. However, the three Enneads were retained for writing numbers, which is the basis of isopsephia. In contrast, the Hebrew alphabet had only 22 letters, so there were no numerals for 500, 600, 700, 800 or 900. (The use of the final forms of the letters for these numbers cannot predate their appearance in the Square Hebrew alphabet of the first or second century BCE; Diringer 135-7.) How much significance should be attached to isopsephia? We cannot fail to be astonished when we discover that a square around Apollo's temple at Didyma has a perimeter of 1415 Greek feet, and that 1415 is the numerical value of O QEOS APOLLWN (ho Theos Apollon, the God Apollo); or that a hexagon inscribed in the same temple has a perimeter of 1061 feet, which is the numerical value of APOLLWN (Fideler 216-7). But should we consider these facts "mere coincidences"? Here Jung's concept of synchronicity is helpful, for we realize that if the coincidence is symbolically meaningful, then it is a synchronous event bridging the physical and psychic worlds. Therefore, if these isopsephic connections are significant to you, then they are ipso facto meaningful. For this reason the Pythagorean Tarot includes analyses according to the principles of isopsephia. ------------------------------------------------------------------ the "Qabalah" section within the work cited above hara -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html