Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.campus.mci.net!calweb!gigo!tefnut!balanone From: Balanone@tefnut.gigo.com (Balanone) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.satanism,alt.magick,alt.religion.all-worlds Subject: Satanist/NeoPagan War Date: 26 Jun 96 19:30:10 Organization: Fidonet: Balance in Opposition - Opposition in Balance Lines: 69 Message-ID: <657_9606270654@gigo.com> References: <4pkpee$dqu@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <4pks9k$o@news.internetmci.com> <4pn3ok$rv4@news.internetmci.com> <4ppakl$frb@falcon.sat.net> <4prtmo$3ip@news.internetmci.com> <4qo02r$nft@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gigo.com NNTP-Posting-User: account=gigo ident=jfesler Xref: shell.portal.com alt.pagan:164719 alt.satanism:46279 alt.magick:77910 alt.religion.all-worlds:8186 On Jun 25, 1996, cdeville@ix.netcom.com wrote re: Re: Satanist/NeoPagan War CD@i> I would also agree here if I could _find_ the "satanic movement". CD@i> I've been told repeatedly during this discussion that satanists are CD@i> even less organized than the neo-pagans and cannot _agree_ on what CD@i> Satanism is. Aquino claims the right to define it. LaVey claims CD@i> the right to define it. Outside of CoS and ToS pretty much everyone CD@i> disagrees with their right. CD@i> The problem in the "Are Satanists also Pagan" debate is not the CD@i> question as to whether or not Satanists have the right to define CD@i> themselves, it is that by so doing they _also_ seek to _redefine_ CD@i> Neo-Paganism. Excuse me, Ms. Deville, but I think you overstate their activity here. One of the commonalities between modern Satanism and the rest of modern Paganism is that neither aspect of the modern occult activity has managed to cohesively define itself. 1) Pagans are attempting to define Paganism, and are discussing/arguing those definitions among themselves. Within Paganism, those who call themselves Neo-Pagans are attempting to define Neo-Paganism, and often Paganism. There's less disagreement within that group concerning just what Neo-Paganism is, but much disagreement among them and between them and other Pagans concerning what Paganism is. 2) Satanists are attempting to define Satanism, and are arguing/discussing those definitions among themselves. 3) Satanists who are Pagans are attempting to define both, and are discussing/arguing these definitions not only among themselves, but also with the Pagans who aren't Satanists and with the Satanists who aren't Pagans. [I don't know any Satanists who claim to be Neo-Pagans by CAW's definition of Neo-Paganism; but many of them do claim to be modern Pagans by a variety of reasonably offered definitions.] 4) Some Pagans who aren't Satanists are also trying to define Satanism (often claiming that no Satanist could be Pagan), and some Satanists who aren't Pagans are trying to define Paganism (sometimes claiming that no Satanist could be Pagan). 5) Until those first three three intersecting sets reach some form of solid definition for themselves, there can't be any /re/defining even by the latter two groups, since the /defining/ hasn't yet been completed. However, if those latter two groups would be still for a few decades, the first three might eventually reach cohesiveness in their definitions, and *then* you can make all the judgments you want. Balanone PP FidoNet: Balanone at 1:203/2019 PODS: Balanone at 93:9303/2019 Internet: Balanone@tefnut.gigo.com ... Oh, People of the Earth, listen to the words of the Prophet. ___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered] with 12311 taglines. -- : Fidonet: Balanone 1:203/2019 .. speaking for only myself. : Internet: Balanone@tefnut.gigo.com