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Subject: Re: Satanist/NeoPagan War
Message-ID: <1996Jun30.135116.121951@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
From: rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu (Goddess in Training)
Date: 30 Jun 96 13:51:16 CDT
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Catherine Deville (cdeville@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On 28 Jun 1996 17:03:20 -0500, in article #
: <4r1kr8$k10@pentagon.io.com>, ix@io.com (Lupo LeBoucher) wrote:
: >So, what about Hecate, Kali and Lilith worshippers? What about the ONA?
: >They fit in nicely with your comparative religion scheme, but are also 
: >Satanists in one sense or another.

: Now, _whatever_ gave you the idea that I was any more comfortable with
: Hecate, Kali or Lilith (although the _original_ myth of Lilith has a
: different 'flavor' to me than the later myth).  Hell!  I'm not even

You're right. The original myth of Lilith has a completely different 
flavor than the typical revisionist version most Neo-Pagans bandy about 
as if it were "historical" truth. Lilith's roots are in a Mesopotamian 
child-killing demoness, not a goddess. There's no evidence that Lilith 
was ever worshipped as a goddess until modern times.

: To _me_ the Gods are very powerful things, (even as 'archetypes') and
: I don't work with energy that I am not ready to handle.  I believe it
: to be very _destructive_ to work with dark energies if you are not at
: the point in your life where you are ready to handle them and where
: you are called to handle them.  I've been through the "descent into

That's a very good approach, one I've followed myself. It was only 
recently that I was able to actually start working with Lilith, beyond a 
scholarly level, and I still haven't worked with her extensively, even 
though I sometimes call myself a "Lilith worshipper." I have a real 
respect for her destructive side, but I also realize she's a bit insane. 
I still love the crazy bitch, though. 

: And, as to your final point... although people who worship Kali or
: Hecate or Lilith (all three _very different_ types of 'dark' goddess)
: are _usually_ "Pagan" and often "Neo-Pagan" (although the largest
: number of Kali worshippers do not usually consider themselves
: 'neo-pagan'), they are _hardly_ 'Satanists' and I would doubt that
: most of them would claim the label.  "Satan" is a completely different
: archetype... both in his masculinity and in his adversarial nature.   

As a Lilith worshipper and (Neo-)Pagan, I wouldn't label myself a
"Satanist," though I tend to associate more with Dark Pagans, Satanists,
Thelemites, and Chaotes more than with the general Pagan community. I do
feel a kinship with *some* Satanists, though, and can understand why what
I practice could be considered either Satanism or related to it. I just 
don't use the label myself, since I don't think it really fits. 

Lilith is very much an adversarial goddess (or demoness), and her myths,
especially from a Jewish perspective, are "Satanic." For instance, she is
at various times considered the wife of Sammael and of Ashmodai, two of
the major demons in the Judaic tradition. I've seen both referred to as
the Jewish equivalent of the Christian Satan, especially Sammael. In fact,
Sammael has been used as a name for Satan, even by Christians (the opera
_Der Freischuetz_ comes to mind). Lilith is the Queen of the Demons. 
Sounds rather Satanic to me. 

Of course, I don't think I'm your typical Lilith worshipper. For 
starters, I don't deny her history, even if I interpret her in a modern, 
not ancient, way.
--'--,-{@  --,--'-{@  --'--,-{@                                             
Renee Rosen                   		      
rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu                "Was I a witch?
Goddess in Training                            In the dark days, I heard 
Astrud and Astarte on irc      		                      voices . . ."
http://lark.cc.ukans.edu/~rrosen                       	--Art Bears
					       @}-,--'--  @}-'--,--  @}-,--'--