From tyagi@bjt.net Thu Dec 5 04:31:26 1996 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA17688 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 04:31:23 -0500 Received: by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA27196; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 01:14:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 01:14:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050914.BAA27196@kudonet.com> To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Subject: Neopaganism/9612.hierchy.do From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Status: O >Path: kudonet.com!news.scruz.net!miwok!news1.best.com!news.thenet.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.brewich.com!robomod!srp-submit >From: "Doug O'Neal" >Newsgroups: soc.religion.paganism >Subject: Re: Wiccan Administration >Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:30:17 -0600 >Organization: BW Internet Services -- bwis.com -- Houston's UUCP Provider >Lines: 43 >Sender: srpbot@news.brewich.com >Approved: SRP Approval Key >Message-ID: <9611262030.AA05400@trantor.astro.psu.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: brewich.com >X-SRP-Homepage: http://www.brewich.com/org/srp/index.html >X-SRP-Info-1: Send submissions to srpbot@brewich.com >X-SRP-Info-2: Send technical complaints to srp-admin@brewich.com >X-SRP-Info-3: Send complaints about policy to srp-modkin@brewich.com >X-Robomod-Written-By: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) >X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP soc.religion.paganism > iQBVAwUBMptTWFzemumcYbkZAQFZIQH/UYSkfxefEnL7pinqjY6ag8Cu/R5KmJLG > nHSqSbdagGdFgY9aHHAZLfLFocijUabXYBWYDmymAMlyDbCRrEht8A== > =8hMB >>From jb154@prism.gatech.edu Tue Nov 26 15:17:44 1996 >>Subject: Re: Wiccan Administration >Hierarchical organization is as old as Mother and Baby---not >because anybody is trying to be mean to anyone else, nor for >any indulgence in power for power's sake, but because it's >necessary and it works. >Does this mean the answer to *everything* is "because Mommy >says so"? Of course not. However, it *does* provide a religiously >appropriate precedent for covens whose members feel that they >would be helped by establishing some sort of order and organization >among themselves. >I don't mean to offend here, either. If hierarchy isn't for you, >fine, but your article seems to suggest that organization and >structure are antithetical to femaleness, and as a woman and a >Mom and a Witch and Priestess, I feel the need to rebut that. This is an excellent point. I know that there are some excellent arguments against hierarchy, some of which I accept and believe in. And hierarchy taken to the extreme is usually if not always a bad thing. If you can organize your coven, group, etc., completely without hierarchy, go for it. But, for one thing, I don't think that having person A coordinate meeting times, person B in charge of ritual planning, person C be secretary, etc., fits the definition of hierarchy. That, instead, is merely pragmatism, that a specific job is best taken care of by one person relatively independently of the rest of the group. For another thing, speaking very cynically but somewhat truthfully, a lot of Pagans (and others of alternative beliefs/life-styles/etc.) claim that they're against hierarchy when what they're really saying is that they lack the skill and desire to actually do any organizational work. Meetings thus dissolve into a chaos where nobody knows what's going on and nothing ever gets accomplished. Doug oneal@astro.psu.edu http://www.astro.psu.edu/users/oneal/ "Let dreamers dream what worlds they please / Those Edens can't be found The sweetest flowers, the fairest trees / Are grown in solid ground." -- Bernstein/Wilbur, after Voltaire