Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news.uni-c.dk!hdc!jk1604 From: jk1604@hdc.hha.dk (Hr. Vad) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick Subject: Re: SINISTER ORDER OF FENRIR: SINISTER NORSE FASCIST OCCULTISM Date: 4 Apr 1996 01:46 +0100 Organization: News Server at UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education. Lines: 132 Sender: jk1604@hdc (Hr. Vad) Distribution: world Message-ID: <4APR199601461331@hdc> References: <4is99h$4ip@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <828104219snz@mbha.demon.co.uk> <31MAR199615155123@hdc> <828345113snz@mbha.demon.co.uk> <4jplq2$cmg@news.ccit.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hdc.hha.dk News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50 Xref: shell.portal.com alt.satanism:40567 alt.magick:70869 Thanks for doing the dirty work here Jason. I was actually not going to respond to sv, but I will indirectly anyway, as your article is much better structured. In article <4jplq2$cmg@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, jasonp@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason Posey ) writes... >In article <828345113snz@mbha.demon.co.uk>, sv wrote: >>In article <31MAR199615155123@hdc> jk1604@hdc.hha.dk "Hr. Vad" writes: [...] >>What does Masonry have to do with Satanism? > >Not very much. But the Yezidis certainly do. So what is your opinion of >them? They are certainly ORGANIZED. And have always been most effective >when they are most ORGANIZED. Masons like Albert Piker certainly had a few interesting ideas. Anyway, Jason, you're right to note that sv evades the question here. >>] Do you even have a clue? >> >>Yes. As a matter of fact I probably have a better clue than most. In spite of >>your bad manners, I will tell you a secret: >>Satan is a principle of decay, of dissolution and dispersion. Organisation >>is a principle of construction, of building. Satan is called variously 'The >>Lord of misrule' and other similar epithets. If you cannot now see the >>contradiction in terms then I am wasting my time. Exactly why I asked whether you're feeble brain was able to come up with something more complex than one-dimensionality. Here you are STILL being one dimensional. >The contradiction in terms is *too* obvious - because it is too >simplistic. By your faulty reasoning, good manners should be un-Satanic - >for is not the purpose of etiquette to preserve a sense of order? Strange isn't it? I specifically pointed out to the guy that he seemed to propound an argument resting on something one dimesional, and asked him to take into consideration a few other facts in order to reach a more nuanced picture. He show himself unable. Brain damage? >Yes, Satan is entropy. The recognition of this fact, however, has little >if anything to do with the organization of Satanic groups. It's been said about a million times here on alt.satanism, but I'll be happy to reiterate it: Entropy has nothing per se to do with _rot_ or _decay_. Oh surely, if you take that steak out of your fridge it will begin to rot, a process guided by entropy. However, entropy is also the very thing holding you up, cf. the famous example of RUST/breathing. Entropy is a _guiding force_ and as just said it e.g. more or less causes you to breathe in order to oxidize the iron in your blood. >The purpose of a Satanic organization is manifold - for one, it is simply >a chance for people of like minds to socialize. Furthermore, and most >importantly, it represents an opportunity for them to pool their >resources, so as to achieve greater results than any one of them could >possibly achieve acting alone. In fact, by working together, they could >even increase "entropy" in the world around them more powerfully than >working alone. Of course, this isn't really the point - entropy occurs >whether or not we Satanists will it. The fact of the matter is, THE >CORRECT PURPOSE OF A SATANIC ORGANIZATION SHOULD BE - TO WORK TOWARDS >MAKING THE ENTROPY WHICH NATURALLY OCCURS WORK *FOR* US! I'm not really sure I follow you here. The "entropy occurs whether or not we Satanists will it" is OK, but the "WORK TOWARDS MAKING THE ENTROPY WHICH NATURALLY OCCURS WORK *FOR* US" seems to miss the point about entropy completely. >A single individual, acting alone, simply CANNOT perform the same level >of work as a group working together. This has ALWAYS BEEN the weakness of >Satanism and Satanists - we CAN'T GET OUR FUCKING ACT TOGETHER! Endless, >useless debating about the nature of decay, is ego good or bad, is >Azathoth for real, can I make someone's head explode if I wish for ithard >enough... or "is Satanic organization a contradiction in terms?" Of >course it ISN'T! To assume that, because the Dark Lord is the power of >entropy, that we must somehow emulate an omnipresent cosmic force is >patently RIDICULOUS. We CAN NOT and we SHOULD NOT TRY. The point is NOT >to "be like Satan" - no one can do such a thing. The point is to make use >of Satan, to take advantage of It, to avoid being destroyed by It... OK, this is more like it. There's two levels which we normally understand "Satan" at: as the dark force in nature and as a symbol or archetype. The former cannot "be emulated". Such a statement is simply nonsense. As an archetype we can ask, however, "what would Satan have done here." What you are in effect saying here is that the point is to take advantage of LIFE as it is and avoid being destroyed (too early). Entropy is in and of you; it's all around, permeating everything and guiding it. Entropy looks in many ways as "the rules of the game." > and, >so far, the Satanic community has not shown itself very capable of doing >ANY of this. Not _as a community_, but many Satanists have very much success applying Satanism in their own lives. It shouldn't matter whether there was one or a million Satanists: You should still be able to do well applying the philosophy of Satanism. >Instead, we spend out time running around wanting to be >as... entropyish... as possible. You really need to get a grip of that "entropy" as I'm completely unable to see how someone can "act entropyish". Might as well ask if someone is trying to act "table-ish" or "car-ish". You don't act tableish or carish, you just DEAL with the damn thing and make the best of it (by sitting at the table on the chair and not like those Xtians who deny reality and hence CAN NOT make any use of those things). >>Of course, serious Magic doesn't provide one with quite such a good armoury >>of weapons with which to be outrageous; 'Oh look at me, I'm a Satanist. Aren't >>I a wicked fellow' or 'I'm a Satanist, I'm _really_ bad' or 'Look at me, I'm a >>Satanist. I wear black things (normally with big, conspicuous silver badges so >>everyone knows how bad I am), and I look at you with big stary eyes'. > >The above description does not fit Hr. Vad, nor does it fit me. For the >record, my normal attire consists of shorts, a short-sleeved shirt, and a >baseball cap. Thanks for noting it. Hr. Vad "Judge, (jk1604@hdc.hha.dk) and be prepared to be judged." --Ayn Rand ***> http://www.hha.dk/~jk1604/