Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!ip32-069.lax.primenet.com!user From: wizard@primenet.com (Wizard) Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca,a;lt.pagan,alt.satanism Subject: Re: Tools of Satan Date: 19 Aug 1996 22:34:06 -0700 Organization: primenet Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <4v7tme$nd1@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <32188887.2263@netins.net> X-Posted-By: @206.165.32.69 (wizard) Xref: shell.portal.com alt.religion.wicca:37039 alt.satanism:50008 In article <32188887.2263@netins.net>, Xina wrote: >Wizard wrote: > >> 4) Satan is part of Christianity. It seems that the fundamentalists spend >> half their time talking about Old Scratch. Since Wicca is NOT >> Christianity, Wiccans just don't think or worry about Satan. >> Wizard > >*sigh* > >*This* is the misinformation that Ive been talking about. Why do we >accept Christianity's definition of Satan and Satanism? Do we accept >their definition of what we are? Xina, I understand where you are coming from. However, let me give an analogy. The word "quantum" refers to the tiny measurements used in sub-atomic physics. A "quantum leap" refers to a tiny leap in an unexpetected direction which yields remarkable, results. However, if you ask "the average" person what a "quantum leap" is, they will probably say something like a "huge leap forward." You and I may try to turn back the meaning to the original meaning of the expression, but it would be like trying to hold back ocean tides with a one-gallon pail. It ain't gonna happen. It is assumed today that Satan is part of some imaginary Judeo/Christian pantheon. In fact, Judaism does not have a Satanic figure, it has a position entitled "The Satan," which relates to what we would call a "Devil's Advocate" today. Similarly, I think people who are following traditions such as those of Anton or Michael should realize that the word "Satan" has baggage that comes with it, and that the Satan people who follow that path believe in is not the same "Satan" as that of the Christians. If you believe in magick, and I assume you do, you are probably familiar with the idea of the egregore, a spirit or energy (or whatever you wish to call it) created by the combined wills of a group of people. Well, for 2,000 years or so, increasing numbers of Christians have created their flip-side to their god. They call this thing "Satan," and for them, that's who it is. I'm not merely accepting Christian's idea of Satan, I'm identifying what most people consider Satan to be. This is reality, like it or not. I know that some will say, "Well then, why don't you agree with Christians' ideas about Witches & Witchcraft?" The answer is that Christians' ideas about Witches and Witchcraft deal with practices and people, not a non-physical entity. It's apples and oranges. I am not a Satanist, but I support the rights of Satanists to worship how and where they will so long as it is in a legal manner--that's the same as I feel about Christians, Jews, Moslems, Wiccans, etc. But until Satan pops up in the physical world and says, "Hey, guys, this is the way I really am!" you are not going to have success convincing others that they are wrong about Satan. You can show them that your brand of Satanists and Satanism does not compare to their concepts, but their egregore of Satan remains part of them. BB Wizard