Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ais.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux9.cso.uiuc.edu!tqtruong From: truong tho quy Newsgroups: alt.satanism Subject: Re: a few questions Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:31:19 -0600 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 61 Message-ID: References: <01bd19f1$180f23a0$1d02a283@host.acadiau.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux9.cso.uiuc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: tqtruong@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: <01bd19f1$180f23a0$1d02a283@host.acadiau.ca> Xref: Supernews70 alt.satanism:83820 On 5 Jan 1998, Severin wrote: > > You really ought to be posing these questions directly to the Temple of > Set. From my experience, Setians are very reserved about discussing their I posted on this ng b/c I felt my questions could also apply to the Church > : Why (is) magic (necessary)? How is magic connected to self-reflection > and > : advancement? This connection is not at all clear to me. > > > It's not clear to me either, at least not in the context of the ToS. The > ToS literature keeps emphasizing that ritual trappings are superficial and Much of the philosophy which underlies "satanic" doctrines as I understand it (e.g. self-improvement, independent thinking, reflection, humans possessing a "Will" -- let's not get caught up in the wording, please -- fully responsible for one's own ethical/moral development and actions, etc.) are not novel. Concepts of self-actualization and having a Will and/or Self independent of eternal causes have been around more than one ancient civilization long before ToS or LaVey or Neitzche. I have never gotten a complete answer from members of LaVey's group or ToS (actually, a member of ToS has been much more helpful in dispensing info to me regarding the necessity of magic than anyone else so far) regarding the connection of magic to one's own personal development. I am not convinced that magic is not just a surrogate for God. Sure, satanists can believe that the difference is that the magic is "within" whereas God is at best an unproven hypothesis brought forth by other people/society, etc., but the distinction is not that meaningful if one considers that some people look to God for personal strength (e.g. to overcome a flaw or failure) and satanists look to magic to do the same. A person follows a sort of protocol either way to make herself feel better or stronger or whatever. The point is, a person can empower herself by placing the burden of personal (spiritual, ethical, moral, emotional, mental etc. etc.) development in her own hands, but can either look to God or magic to aid her....hence, my question about magic...and I will certainly be interested in information, arguments, etc. that may change my mind. I am not afraid to change my mind. The fact that LaVey chose Satan, even if a figurative Satan, as a sort of mascot for his group discredits him in my eyes (and not because I dislike "satan" or regard him as say, a Southern Baptist would-- it's only a name to me). It shows a certain degree of immaturity IMO. Why does one need to rebel against anything? Most of all, I am not at all convinced that this is not all just one big coping mechanism for angry, disillusioned people who cannot deal with society or their own flaws and emotions in a completely honest, head-on manner. Hence, I asked these questions b/c I feel I need more info to make the fairest decision... > > There's that problem again...How do you know that "those in-the-know" > aren't just spouting bullshit? For all you know, I could be full of crap, > and for all I know, the ToS could be full of it, too. How do you know that this is not the reason why I am posting and asking questions? :P :) T.T.