Path: ultra.sonic.net!news From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.politics.satanism,alt.satannet,bit.listserv.nazi-l,alt.music.black-metal.nazi,alt.gothic,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.black.nazi,alt.magick.tyagi,misc.activism.anti-fascism.tactics Subject: Fascist Satanism is an Oxy-Moron (was Re: Satanic Nazis ...) Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.satannet,bit.listserv.nazi-l,alt.music.black-metal.nazi,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.black.nazi Date: 11 Jan 1999 22:37:38 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 193 Message-ID: <77eqji$jtk@bolt.sonic.net> References: <76pkcl$kom$1@hiram.io.com> <19990104012054.01149.00007438@ng-ca1.aol.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bolt.sonic.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.satanism:105096 alt.satannet:2226 alt.gothic:459099 alt.magick.tyagi:15225 49990110 IIIom Hail Satan! quarren@aol.com (Quarren), along with the others in this thread, don't address its subject line, continuing a discussion of some anti-hitlerian song about his single testicle and ignoring a real problem in the Satanist community. I would like to take up the opposition to fascism of all sorts, inclusive of neo-nazism, as compatible with the common virtues of Satanism as they are typically understood, and open up a serious discussion of how bigotry and totalitarian political sentiments can have any reasonable place in a quasi-religious movement ostensibly in emulation of the overthrow of oppressive regimes and the rebellion against unwanted authority. beginning the conversation with the most widely-known expositor of Satanism, Anton LaVey, he is sometimes ambiguous on the matter, though his text often includes protective language such as that regarding the limitations to the actions of Satanists as regards sexuality: Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires -- be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism also sanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long AS IT INVOLVES NO ONE WHO DOES NOT WISH TO BE INVOLVED. _________________________________________________ _The Satanic Bible_, Anton LaVey, Avon Books, 1969; page 67. my emphasis -- nocTifer. ----------------------------------------------- that is, LaVey stipulates that the limitations of ethical behavior, especially where sexuality is concerned, may be found in the realm of CONSENT. where "animals" (that is, nonhumans, which LaVey nor many others have learned yet to categorize *along with humans* as a subset of animals, even though CoSatanists prefer to emphasize this notion in their "Nine Satanic Statements") and children are concerned, the Satanist, according to LaVey (and most CoSatanists after him) DOES NOT OFFER THEM ANY HARM (with the exception being made for killing nonhumans for food, presumably in a manner which does not include torture). in fact it is only within certain extreme circumstances that LaVey proposes violence, and this in retaliation for nuisance or disrespect, typically "in one's own lair". given this system of ethics, it is difficult to understand how any CoSatanist could possibly tolerate the standards of National Socialism or neo-nazism, and yet only a year or so ago I was informed by a local grotto-master that he and his cohorts were fond of "parading about in nazi uniforms and jack-boots" and called publically for the "showering" (implied gassing/killing) of street people in order to further what he called 'Social Darwinism'. this veers strongly from the merely misogynist writings of a liberationalist antinomian to the classist and ridiculously elitist adoration of the 'taboo of fascism' (faux in its actual manifestation, apparently -- the same grotto-master confided that they didn't really *believe* in nazi ideas). it comports with 'nasty and scary' images for the purpose of tweaking the establishment (in their area liberal and democratic) and has no serious political underpinnings aside from the possible benefit of preserving the right to stupidity based on an ill-conceived notion of what nazis and the Third Reich were really about -- the elimination of the genius and individualism which most Satanists applaud. and yet it was LaVey who took as his central source, for an uncited portion of _The Satanic Bible_ a tract of race- hatred (anti-semitic; anti-Christian: R. Redbeard's) stripped of its most egregious elements. and there is an easily visible contingent of CoSatanist expression which is at least overtly racist and fascist (adorned with swastikas and nordic hyperbole) in character. articles such as "Satanism and Racialism", by the editor of "Not Like Most" magazine (authored by Matt Paradise in issue #6, a writer of one of the alt.satanism FAQs and a publisher of an interview with me in the same issue :>) have even gone some distance to analyze into triviality the real and important distinctions between Satanism of an individualistic and liberational character and fascist ideologies, indicating with terms like 'racialism' a distinction from culpability, and that phrases like 'hate crimes' are 'thoroughly subjective'. Paradise walks a very thin line, never directly contradicting nazi ideology or fascist values generally, never taking the side of Lucifer in the metaphorical struggle with the totalitarian demagogue. instead he seeks to overly-emphasize the anti-Christian commonalities of racist political culture (conveniently neglecting a review of the Klu Klux Klan or other "Christian" organizations like it) and supports free expression, spiting the unpopularity of these insane and self-destructive political pathos. at his most corrosive, he generalizes upon the spew of white supremacists, claiming that this is somehow reflective of Satanism "if spread to a more inclusive plane". the core of the issue in LaVey as reflected in writings like these of CoSatanists is the variably-interpreted phrase "Social Darwinism", something lamentably twisted out of the curriculum of biology to justify and explain all manner of human domination and violence 'in the name of progress'. in the end such novel imperialistic schemes come to imply a stratified social culture, often presided over by the vainglorious Satanists, comfortable in their supremacy and tied to some superauthoritarian self-support, compassionless and abandoning the principles upon which the better stories surrounding the Romantic, rebellious Satan are founded. yet how can this be reconciled with LaVey's clear claims associating Satanism with "real justice" in such text as may be found quoted in Blanche Barton's work? People should be allowed to stratify themselves naturally, without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity.... ...If a person is ethical, productive, sensitive, and knows how to conduct himself among human beings, fine; if he's a destructive, amoral parasite, he should be dealt with quickly and cruelly.... ...It's certainly extremism, but we aren't against Jews, Blacks, Whites... we're against *all* insensitive, death-loving people.... ..."All we want, those few of us who *have* the strength to realize what's going on, is the freedom to create and entertain and share with each other, to preserve and cherish what we can while we can, and to build our own little citadels away from the insensitivity of the rest of the world." ... Satanists aren't out to smash justic, rather to encourage it. The real anarchy is the *present* lawless system, in which punishment is practically nonexistent. Convictions and sentencing are now gaffed to protect the weak and inferior. Public floggings, stockades in the public square, the pre-eminence of the Executioner -- all gone. __________________________________________________ _The Church of Satan_, Blanche Barton quoting Anton LaVey, Hell's Kitchen Productions, 1990; pp. 79-88. ----------------------------------------------- the "Social Darwinism" promoted by LaVeyians appears either to be severely misunderstood, or is couched in alarmist and incendiary phraseology so as stir up attention despite the very rational libertarianism which LaVey eventually settles into promoting in the core of his doctrines. such claims leave absolutely NO room for fascism, and, as Jeffrey Deboo has written in his publications denouncing Satanists who affiliate with racists and bigots of all types, those who seek out fascist ideologies would create an environment which is inhospitable to the Satanist lifestyle of individualism, and are thus self-contradictory to self-interest and to the Satanist community as a whole (see my upcoming essay on Deboo's Satanism to be published on the internet). where other types of Satanism are concerned there is a great variation with respect to political leanings. most seem to enjoy the rebellious nature of the Promethean spirit, and to these, stultifying and totalitarian bigotry is not at all attractive, being but more of the oppression that they may identify with the Christian or post-Christian establishment. certainly as Paradise and others have remarked, the desire to inflame, to dress badly, to cause a ruckus (to have an effect through the support of what at least on the surface appears to be sociopathic groups and symbolism) is important to some Satanists, however seriously this debilitates or slows the social platforms put forward by individuals such as LaVey or those better- versed in political science). commentary welcome, chime in with your comparison, contrast your favored totalitarian demagogues and their virtues. ;> blessed beast! nocTifer -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html