From zazas-l-owner@hollyfeld.org Tue Feb 09 02:06:32 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: yronwode@prog-relay.sonic.net Received: (qmail 24016 invoked from network); 9 Feb 1999 02:06:32 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by buzz.sonic.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 02:06:32 -0000 Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (root@ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29832 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:04:57 -0800 Received: from shell.accesscom.com (root@shell.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA17503 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:04:56 -0800 Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (root@ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA02185 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:04:56 -0800 Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA17498 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:04:55 -0800 Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17622; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:04:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from zazas-l-owner@hollyfeld.org) Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (www.hollyfeld.org [204.130.199.143]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05991; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:06:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA17188 for zazas-l-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:09:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to owner-zazas-l@hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA17163 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:06:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 4048 invoked from network); 9 Feb 1999 02:00:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 02:00:19 -0000 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (yronwode@bolt [208.201.224.36]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28968; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:00:18 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: (from yronwode@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id SAA08193; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:00:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199902090200.SAA08193@bolt.sonic.net> Subject: (Z) Satan and Demons To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org (ZAZAS-L Satanist Elist) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:00:17 -0800 (PST) From: "tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com" In-Reply-To: <199902080245.SAA28656@mindy.accesscom.com> from Jeffery Snell at "Feb 7, 99 06:44:41 pm" From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Orientation: Arkaotika, Ville of the Forest, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga Organization: http://www.abyss.com/tokus X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-zazas-l@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org Status: RO 49990208 IIIom Hail Satan! a correspondent writes: # ...I am wondering if you might have a heirarchy of the "demons" # (to use the "accepted" phrase). there are really two parts to this question a) demonlist the current OWSPLS list which is part of the alt.magick FAQ contains both Black Magic spells to use for effecting harm to others and (for now) a list of demons whose names you may use to summon them. it can be found at this URL: http://www.luckymojo.com/magi/owspls eventually I'm going to separate these and shift the demon list into the TOKUS Archive at something like http://www.abyss.com/text/theory/demonlist.txt b) hierarchy my understanding is that the various hierarchic descriptions of demons were PROJECTIONS of Judeochristian mages of their relationships with the Infernal Realms, and that the spirits of the Underworld are actually anarchic in their orientation (being associated with CHAOS, DARKNESS, and FORMLESSNESS). the martial and orderly structure was a reflection of the worldly religious forces during the Crusades and, in particular if my sources may be believed, of Italian feudal origins. with communication, one may come to discover the actual placement (more of loyalties and commonalities than authoritarian hierarchies) of the demon with whom one converses. report back to this elist or to Usenet (cc me if you would be so kind) with your findings. # Also, in reading over your FAQ page, do see Satan as female? # or is the particular (and I do not know the proper word here - # "underling"? demi-demon?) you worship female? I understand Satan to be The Betweener, a combination of animals, a combination of genders (see http://www.intersex.org). this is why I call Satan a 'Hir', and also name Hir 'Baphomet'. I serve Satan, but I don't worship Hir -- I don't know Satan to be reliable for or desirous of worship, though I gather that some Satanists claim this works for them (and they will of course let you know who this Satan is to them). I worship the Queen of Demons, whom I know as Kali. Her form is best approximated within Indian iconographs, especially the most wrathful versions; bloody and gruesome. # I tried to talk this over with the local Catholic priest, # but he got red in the face and told me to get out. he probably thought you were yanking his chain. Roman Catholics don't like demons, and they especially don't like them being approached by those whom they consider to be young and vulnerable. many Catholic priests probably have no idea about demons, how to summon them, etc. their prime magical focus is the Mass, which is community-centered, and often sides with what they consider to be the Good Guys against the demon Bad Guys (the ones that the New Testament says Jesus was casting out). these priests went through an initiation so as to be called 'Exorcist', but there is quite a bit of variability as regards what level of understanding of this possibly fading rite may be picked up by any single priest. cf. _The Exorcist_ by Blatty (the book) for a popular look at this issue in a horror format (it also has some good references for further study). don't be too hard on him, you were probably testing the limits of his patience if he was still nice to you after your inquiry. :> more likely to have information on this in the Catholic genre would be the occasional *Jesuit*, whose investigations may well lead them into uncharted or blasphemous territory. you may wish to understand also that most grimoires on the subject (even texts which are purportedly from High Magicians) are *antagonistic* toward demons. the authors were convinced that these spirits were malevolent as a class, and, perhaps with their Judeochristian backgrounds, this is quite the case. I don't believe that they are of this nature, personally, but I'm only beginning my work with them and will keep you informed as I continue my experiments through this elist. blessed beast! tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nocTifer ____________...oooOOO---zazas-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to zazas-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To subscribe send "subscribe" to zazas-l-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven