Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!is.NYU.EDU!jjc4162 From: jjc4162@is.nyu.edu (John J. Collins) Newsgroups: alt.pagan Subject: Re: are Wiccans, Satanists? Date: 30 Sep 1994 20:10:31 GMT Organization: New York University Lines: 48 Message-ID: <36hrbn$i5l@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> References: <363cam$51l@newsbf01.news.aol.com> <366imd$hp2@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <366ujh$s4k@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: is.nyu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Had to get this off my chest: Speaking from a purely Biblical/Talmudic stance, and ignoring other legends, Satan was among the "sons of God" (which, though taken to mean angels, is never exactly defined as such) and in his major OT appearance, teams up with God to test Job's faith. There is no implication that he is in any way anything but a means by which God tests human's faith, and seems to be on God's side. His name in Hebrew is ShTNN (Shatanan). Shaitan is Arabic. Lucifer (I forget the Hebrew, but it also means "light-bringer") is a Lucifer is a different character entirely, the Archangel cast down for disobedience. Satan and Lucifer seem to have been somewhat identified by the time of Jesus, but it was really Milton who created the story as most people know it today, and they simply assume it is from the Bible. The Serpent in Genesis is just a serpent and not intended to be either of these characters. As near as I can tell, there is no good explanation for why Satan is classically portrayed looking rather like Pan. Pan was a rather minor part of the Greek Pantheon and portraying him as evil wouldn't have served much purpose in converting Greeks, especially considering that by the time of Christ, most Greeks had abandoned their classical mythology as religion. Animal-man combination just makes for good monsters would be my guess. "Wicca" (OE, a male witch) and "Wiccacraft" (OE, witchcraft) are, for the record, not synonyms. The w's are pronounced as v's and the cc's as ch's so a witch in Old English is pronounced vi-chah. The word does not come a root meaning "to bend" but most likely from the same Indo-European root which gives us "wit" "vision" and the Hindu Vedas. It means knowledge or sight. Sorry about all of that. People building arguments on bad facts just bugs me. As for whether Witches are Satanists, or if Satanists are Satanists for that matter, I'd think that is up to the Witch or Satanist in question. When Anton evoked the term "Satanist" he knew damn well what it implied. That is part of why he chose it. Neo-pagans, on the other hand, invoked the word "Witch" and commenced to spend half there time trying to tell people that it DOESN'T mean what it implies. Seems to me that if you don't want people to infer things from what you call yourself, yous shouldn't pick a word like 'Witch" that already has some very strong connotations. Blackjack