From tyagi@bjt.net Tue Jan 7 20:39:10 1997 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA04877 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:39:06 -0500 Received: from kudo20.kudonet.com by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20934; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:18:08 -0800 Received: by kudo20.kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA02761; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:09:31 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:09:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199701080009.QAA02761@kudo20.kudonet.com> To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Subject: Satanism/9701.tanicos.kd From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) X-Status: Status: O >Path: kudonet.com!news.scruz.net!miwok!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!neonlights.uoregon.edu!jersey.uoregon.edu!kld >From: Kerry Delf >Newsgroups: alt.satanism >Subject: Re: Attn: Nadramia (was Re: To Mr Scratch, Re: Cockroaches) >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:49:17 -0800 >Organization: University of Oregon >Lines: 128 >Message-ID: >References: <32CC573C.9B6@ix >netcom.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: jersey.uoregon.edu >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >To: nadramia@ix.netcom.com >In-Reply-To: <32CC573C.9B6@ix.netcom.com> [posted with cc to Nadramia] On Thu, 2 Jan 1997 nadramia@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Kerry Delf wrote: > > > > [posted to alt.satanism with cc's to McKinnon & Nadramia] > > Nope -- received no private e-mail from Ms. Delf. I beg your pardon -- is your panix.com address no longer functioning? I'll make a note of that. > > On Wed, 1 Jan 1997, Karl Mac Mc Kinnon wrote: > > > > > "There is no dissagreement between Anton LaVey and Tani Jantsang." > > > This comes from the horses mouth. Peggy Nadramia has already spoke to > > > Adam Wilson on the subject. > > > > Ms. Nadramia, could you please publicly corroborate this? > > Why? Disagreement about what? What to wear? What to eat? I have yet to > see a statement about Satanism from Tani Jantsang that "disagrees" > materially with what I understand of Anton LaVey's theories and > philosophy. Really? Tani promotes communism and racism, neither of which seem to fit in at all with LaVey's vision of Satanism. She encourages hatred of certain sexual acts: For example, she has a deep and abiding hatred of sado-masochism, which she claims is unSatanic and the mark of a Klippoth. For LaVey's differing view, see the _S.B._ On p.69, LaVey specifically sets S/M sexuality apart from the general rule against engaging in sexual expression that hurts others: "the...exception to the rule regards dealing with masochists. A masochist derives pleasure from /being/ hurt; so /denying/ the masochist his pleasure-though-pain hurts /him/ just as much as actual physical pain hurts the non-masochist...The "well-adjusted" sadist is epicurean in selecting those on whom his energies will be well-spent! If a person is healthy enough to admit he is a masochist and enjoys being enslaved and whipped, the real sadist is glad to oblige! ASIDE FROM THE FOREGOING EXCEPTIONS, the Satanist would not intentionally hurt others by violating their sexual rights." [my emphasis]) Additionally, she is revulsed, and inspired to new heights of rant-lit, by the idea and act of fellatio. In response to her sexual prudishness in general, and to her attempts to dictate a proper sexual moral code to all Satanists, again see the _S.B._ On p.67, LaVey writes, "Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires...Satanism also sanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex life, so long as it involves no one who does not wish to be involved." Further, on p.70, he adds, "Just as no two people are exactly the same in their choice of diet or have the same capacity for the consumption of food, sexual tastes and appetites vary from person to person. No person or society has the right to set limitations on the sexual standards or the frequency of sexual activity of another. Proper sexual conduct can only be judged within the context of each individual situation." She presents as "scientific fact" the idea that there are two biologically distinct species classified under the name "human," one of which is based on Carbon-12 ONLY, and is the race of "natural" Satanists, and the other of which is based on rarer, radioactive carbon isotopes, and is the race of "klippoths." Sounds, to me, a little kooky for down-to-earth LaVey. She further insists that Tezcatlipoca and Set, to whom LaVey refers in the _S.B._, p.58-60, as being among the Infernal Names are in fact Christ. She denounces conflict and spreaders of conflict. She claims that the rich and powerful are evil exploiters and "klippoths" and therefore not truly Satanists. Once again, see the _S.B._, "The Black Mass," p.104; a brief quote from the larger whole is "It would be an over-simplification to say that every successful man and woman on earth is, without knowing it, a practicing Satanist; but...if the love of money is the root of all evil, then we must at least assume the most powerful men on earth to be the most Satanic." Finally, Tani is largely anti-hierarchical, hating the structure, and even the principle, of any hierarchy which supports rulers who disagree with her, and denounces any notion of rulership over the earth (_S.B._, again p.104, "The Satanist has always ruled the earth...and always will, by whatever name he is called."). Would you claim that Jantsang's opinions on these matters indeed correspond with LaVey's attitudes? > > A yes or no answer will suffice. > > (smile) Oh, sure. "Please speak a little closer to the microphone." Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of Jantsang Readers Anonymous? > --P -K.Delf -----------=Kerry Delf=-------------==----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I fear sometimes that I have the ambition of a genius, the eye and ear of a genius, and the talent of a chimneysweep. I go down into the filthy world, I come up black, I scatter the ashes and cinders of my research onto white papers, but what have I got? Paper with black marks all over it." --Orson Scott Card's fictional Honore de Balzac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- EMAILING RESPONSES TO MY USENET POSTS CONSTITUTES PERMISSION TO POST THEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------