Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!lax.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!korova.insync.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.207.0.27!nntp2.giganews.com!news1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Balphagor" From: "Balphagor" Newsgroups: alt.satanism References: <18204-372BB3CD-72@newsd-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <19990502044457.24947.00001986@ng-fi1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Baphomet pentagram creator Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 16:15:33 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv1-0awHsNPQX6vQm4xqRzFeefYASzLd7Kvwck4vk9SZPnBpnfjVYTMEM54QEcgSyQE/3sw+0u9lr7uzgS2!M9oBLTIm8Xk= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:19:22 -0700 Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.satanism:114124 I have held the actual CoS Trade Mark document in my hand for the Baphomet. It states quite clearly that the Trade Mark is for an inverted pentagram contained within the outline of a goats head WITH the words "The Church of Satan" encircled around the inverted pentagram. It also states quite clearly that this Trade Mark is NOT for the phrase "The Church of Satan" only the artistic depiction (Logo) attached hereto. Of course anyone can sue for anything that they see as an infringement of there rights. Average cost of a Trade Mark, Trade Dress infringement suit, $180,000 - $220,000.00* / Average time period pre-trial discoveries, filings, preliminary court meetings, etc., BEFORE the case gets to trial 1.8 YEARS* Then you have appeals, etc........... The CoS should want Satanic sites to display "their" Baphomet design with pride. It's free advertising. Now if the 700 club started using it as their Corporate Logo, then perhaps there would be a case for concern. But since the CoS has proclaimed themselves a religion as evidenced by their proud display from the military 'Chaplains Handbook" on the CoS site http://coscentral.net/cos/Pages/ChaplainsHandbook.html that the CoS is classified as a "religion" and that the Baphomet is a symbol thereof, they could no more enforce their Trade Mark claim to the Baphomet than the Vatican could or would sue someone for displaying or producing a crucifix. As I now understand it, the CoS site is now demanding permission to display the Baphomet on your site. I think that especially at these critical CoS times, that is absolutely ludicrous. Where and how is permission given, how is it enforced, who has the right to give it? I think that it is a sad turn of events. However that is MY opinion. And this is why they will NEVER get MY $100.00 *source USA today, article "Trade Marks and the Internet" -Balphagor YRabishu wrote in message news:19990502044457.24947.00001986@ng-fi1.aol.com... > >most of you know that Levi created the inverted or upside down pentagram > >and the baphomet pentagram but this is a real good history on "Anton > >Lavey's copyrighted?" pentagram which was in fact created by Levi. > >"http://intranet.ca/~magicworks/knights/sigil.html" > > > >warmest wishes > >Don Hyde > > > > > > > > > > > Since most of TSB is indeed plagarised, CoS's "copyright" in more or less > invalid. The only thing protecting them is the money at Avon, once Avon rulls > under (if they ever do) CoS wont be able to do jack Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!pao.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!uunet!ams.uu.net!newsfeed.amsterdam.nl.net!sun4nl!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newspeer1.nac.net!nntp1!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.satanism Subject: Re: Baphomet pentagram creator From: harwer@ultinet.SPAMKILLA.net (Kevin Filan) Reply-To: harwer@ultinet.net Organization: Harwer's Hangout and House o' Flames X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) References: <18204-372BB3CD-72@newsd-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <19990502044457.24947.00001986@ng-fi1.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:51:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.99.47.127 X-Complaints-To: news@nac.net X-Trace: nntp1 925685474 207.99.47.127 (Sun, 02 May 1999 18:51:14 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:51:14 EDT Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.satanism:114134 In article , Balphagor@gaytimes.com says... > >I have held the actual CoS Trade Mark document in my hand for the Baphomet. >It states quite clearly that the Trade Mark is for an inverted pentagram >contained within the outline of a goats head WITH the words "The Church of >Satan" encircled around the inverted pentagram. It also states quite clearly >that this Trade Mark is NOT for the phrase "The Church of Satan" only the >artistic depiction (Logo) attached hereto. Which nobody is disputing. However, since Egan's site combines a Baphomet logo with the words "First Church of Satan," it WOULD be considered a violation of trademark. > Of course anyone can sue for >anything that they see as an infringement of there rights. Average cost of a >Trade Mark, Trade Dress infringement suit, $180,000 - $220,000.00* / OTOH, a simple note to tripod.com (which is being drawn up) can result in most of the material being pulled off with no muss and no fuss. (Getting a domain name revoked is a bit more involved, but not much more... and rest assured that Internic has received the paperwork they asked for). >Average time period pre-trial discoveries, filings, preliminary court >meetings, etc., BEFORE the case gets to trial 1.8 YEARS* Then you have >appeals, etc........... Which is irrelevant to the situation at hand: like I said, getting a server to pull off a scamsite is far easier than an involved trademark infringement suit. >The CoS should want Satanic sites to display "their" Baphomet design with >pride. It's free advertising. Depends on which Satanic sites you're talking about. I'm not sure I want the Baphomet stuck on the HEIL SATAN HEIL HITLER HOMEPAGE... or the DEATH METAL SATIN WORSHIP SITE. > Now if the 700 club started using it as their >Corporate Logo, then perhaps there would be a case for concern. Interesting you should raise that point: Egan uses the name "churchofsatan.org" to disseminate anti-LaVey and anti-CoS information. This is very similar to the behavior of an anti-abortion group who registered "plannedparenthood.org" ... and soon found themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit. > But since >the CoS has proclaimed themselves a religion as evidenced by their proud >display from the military 'Chaplains Handbook" on the CoS site >http://coscentral.net/cos/Pages/ChaplainsHandbook.html that the CoS is >classified as a "religion" and that the Baphomet is a symbol thereof, they >could no more enforce their Trade Mark claim to the Baphomet than the >Vatican could or would sue someone for displaying or producing a crucifix. Religious organizations can't sue for copyright infringement? I'll bet you there are going to be a lot of folks on alt.religon.scientology breathing a WHOLE lot easier. Thank you, Attorney Doofus. You may step down now. >As I now understand it, the CoS site is now demanding permission to display >the Baphomet on your site. I think that especially at these critical CoS >times, that is absolutely ludicrous. Where and how is permission given, how >is it enforced, who has the right to give it? Where and how is permission given? Usually a polite "Hey, mind if I use this symbol/.jpeg/article on my site?" directed to nadramia@panix.com will work for getting permission. How is it enforced? Polite letters, letters to system administrators, letters from attorneys, not necessarily in that order. Who has the right to give it? If you send the request to nadramia@panix.com, you'll get permission from someone authorized to give it. > I think that it is a sad turn >of events. However that is MY opinion. And this is why they will NEVER get >MY $100.00 That and you don't have it. Peace Kevin Filan -- Kevin Filan http://www.ultinet.net/~harwer harwer@ultinet.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "The World's Smallest Systems Administrator" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * KEVIN FILAN (a/k/a Kevin Pedofilan): Avowed Satanist (according to his web page) and ultra-right-winger who harasses people because (surprise!) they dare to disagree with him - Tim "Skidmark" Brown, (mailto: bandit@iglou.com) at http://members.iglou.com/bandit