From yronwode@sonic.net Wed Dec 23 12:49:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub [208.201.224.8]) by Sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA14046 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:49:55 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (yronwode@bolt [208.201.224.36]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07443; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:49:54 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: (from yronwode@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA14962; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:49:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199812232049.MAA14962@bolt.sonic.net> Subject: Parental Interaction To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org (ZAZAS-L Satanist Elist) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: nagasiva From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Orientation: Arkaotika, Ville of the Forest, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga Organization: http://www.abyss.com/tokus X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO 49981223 IIIom Hail Satan! from Usenet, "Ann" : # I was wondering if any of you have ever argued with a Xain person # on what their religion is about and why you have chosen yours. argument need not come into it. it is a matter of sharing. if someone is trying to OPPRESS you into changing religions, then perhaps they are not worth your time. # ...I am researching Satanism and have several Books and objects # in my room that my parents do not agree with cause they are # Xains and do not understand why I would want to learn about # Satanism cause technically I`m still one. the open Satanist in the home of a Christian (usually Xtian if you want to use this type of abbrev) is one of the most thorny issues that can come up in freedom of religion debates. for centuries parents have been pushing their religious lifestyles upon their children, yet there have always been those who support the child's right to make the decision for hirself. the problem of Satanism is that it is so often perceived as *anti-Christian* (which it need not be), and as it is reactionary it naturally comes to include all manner of teenage/adolescent rebellion that is the typical expression of urban juveniles (sometimes going as far as breaking the social law). with a name like Satanism you should not be surprised when a parent forbids or restrains your religious interests if their personal choice is Christianity. they have been informed from the outset that their religion opposes this bogey, and that it is led by the antagonist to everything in which they believe. if you believe this too then I feel sorry for you. if not, then you may have a difficult time convincing your family that this is indeed not the case or that you haven't been hoodwinked by the 'Forces of Evil'. # I am not claming that I am practicing Satanism or that I`m # any more involved in Xian practices and that I`m not in any # way abusing the Religion. it sounds like you aren't claiming anything, just asking some important questions. # I simply want to learn what it [is] about. watch for FAQs as I am able to post them. keep asking questions. don't be misled by pranksters. don't believe everything you read. # I want to at least make my parents understand that what they # have no knowledge about [is] not bad or evil simply different. making people understand things is part of the problem of oppressive cultures and religions. they may not be interested in you, your religious interests, or the ravings of a minority of individuals who are crafting their neopagan enterprise in the name of the Adversary for their own and for society's benefit. instead, they may understand something which you do not: namely, that the extremes and controversial borderlands of religious culture house some of the most dangerous and idiotic of individuals, some of whom should be considered 'evil' by rational standards (i.e. corrosive of civilized life and continued societal structure). you would do well to try to understand your parents' WORDS, see what types of people outside of labels they are talking about -- what behaviors should you watch out for if you are going about research into alternative religious systems? # So here`s where you come in , I would very much like for # you to write me back with advice as to what I should do # concerning my parents (how to approach them with the right # words to let me keep the stuff I have) sorry, children are the prisoners and slaves of their parents in the society into which I was born. they are given certain physical protections, but mentally parents are still allowed to fuck them over and restrain them despite any detriments to their education and welfare. contact the ACLU office near you and ask them about the religious rights of children. ask them how much this differs from the rights of PRISONERS (it does, prisoners are provided with more leeway in many cases because they are adults and aren't subjected to the supervised restraint of 'parents' in the ordinary sense). once you've understood the limits of your power, then try to communicate with your parents about your interests in a manner that won't upset them too much. put things in the perspective 'academic interest' (i.e. you are curious about the 'truth' behind rumors perpetuated by the culture in which you live). say that you love religions of all sorts and that this is a part of your intellectual growth. try to visit a couple of rival churches too, analyzing them and their power-dynamics. generally show your parents that you are reliably exploring rather than falling into the clutches of malevolent thugs. simultaneously, as I said above, listen to your parents' warnings about these malevolent thugs. watch out for your own interests and beware of those who will wish to disempower you. you will meet them in the guise of those who exclaim the benefits of personal power. you will meet them in the guise of those who want to 'push the limits' and 'screw the system' rather than those who have an abiding and lasting interest in the deeper elements of Satanist philosophy and service. don't worry so much about your 'stuff'. pay more attention to your fundamental education. seek similarly-oriented ideas and graphics and sounds in more conventional contexts until you can escape the censorship filter that you parents are subjecting you to. read Goethe's or Marlowe's "Faust", perhaps some Nietzsche, Rousseau, or some good Existentialists like Sartre. check out the subjectivists like Hume, Berkeley, and Gautama Buddha. notice how easily they dissemble the constructs of knowledge and destroy the conventional Christian paradigms. in general, lay low and choose your battles wisely. you'll have a whole life after you move into adulthood, where you can create your own rituals, believe whatever you want, and generally practice religion in the manner you find palatable. if you're looking for a sweet bunny story to tell your parents so that they won't worry about you in your investigation of Satanism you won't get it from me. Satanism is dangerous to the myopic and hamstringed life many Christians lead. it can be the beginning of self-empowerment, and this is problematic to the homes of many a religious fundamentalist. remember your place and seek the shelter of covert and expert deception (learn from the US government!) until you can escape the oppressive environment in which you now live. then be very honest about what you do as an expression of your pride and refusal to knuckle under for religious idiots. blessed beast! ________________________________________________________________________ nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com --- http://www.abyss.com/tokus TOKUS-COE Office: 408/2-666-SLUG --- Emergency Contraception:18005849911 if you read this on Usenet, notice that this is an elist posting and it's more likely I'll see your response if you cc me.