Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (CoE SOD) Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism Subject: Re: The Baphomet Sigil Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 164 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <88ur7b$cci@bolt.sonic.net> References: <88r5oi$s8f$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20000221201351.02776.00000815@ng-ft1.aol.com> <88t53p$jj7@bolt.sonic.net> Reply-To: boboroshi@satanservice.org (CoE SOD) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:22:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 951250976 208.201.224.36 (Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:22:56 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:22:56 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:180384 alt.magick.tyagi:21424 alt.satanism:140491 50000222 IVom Tani Jantsang: >>> It is a well known Templar sigil and in the book Doc >>>first saw it in, it was called a Templar sigi from what I can tell this is a fiction perpetuated by those who have some vested interest (in bringing condemnation of Templars, in being the source of some mysterious intrigue, or in promoting the Church of Satan's connection to well-known martyrs -- akin to how modern Wiccans try to connect themselves to Inquisitory "witches"). rmerciless@aol.commit2hell (RMerciless): >>Does anyone on this news group have an actual copy of the books by Oswald Wirth >>or by Maurice Bessy from which the sigil wais taken? >>I would be most interested to see what they said about it exactly. boboroshi@satanservice.org (CoE SOD): >Bessy's book (I have a copy) doesn't say anything about it inside, >from what I remember. I'll look again sometime soon.... I was wrong, it DOES have something inside, but it doesn't relate to masonry much. here's the text from inside Bessy's book: _624-625._ Pentagrams are the result of obscure numerological speculations. The five-pointed star, for example, seems to be characteristic of the Christian era, while the cross is the symbol (amongst others) of the figure five: four arms and the centre. By a strange coincidence, the Holy Spirit, the United States, the U.S.S.R. and Islam use the fivepointed [sic] star as their emblem. (The opposition of good and evil is indicated through the inverted triangles.) ---------------------------------------------------- "A Pictorial History of Magic and the Supernatural", by Maurice Bessy, Spring Books, 1974 (previous editions 1970, English 1964, French? 1961); p. 198. ____________________________________________________ you also mentioned Agrippa. I happen to have his "Three Books of Occult Philosophy" edited by Donald Tyson, as well as the "Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy" attributed to Agrippa, and when I looked through the first I found the *Levi* Baphomet picture (p. 117), a pentagram (p. 331), two pentagrams on the hands of a drawn human figure (p. 346), one Leonardo/Durer human inside a pentacle (p. 347), a copy of *Barrett's* drawing of a point-down pentagram inside a seal, with "te tra gram me ton" written in its points (no goat, no hebrew around the points), (p. 482), and on p. 564, a down-point pentacle with 5 *greek* letters inscribed on the external ring BETWEEN the points (as compared to the hebrew AT the points as on Bessy's book), with the editor's note: In the latin *Opera* this Greek word is rendered [what looks like upsilon gamma iota phi alpha; in Greek], which is how it appears on the seal itself. The fourth character appears to be a contraction of [epsilon iota], made necessary because the word has six letters while the pentagram has only five points. ------------------------------------------------ "Three Occult Books of Philosophy", Henry Agrippa von Nettesheim, ed./ann. Donald Tyson, Llewellyn Publications, 1977; p. 565, note 2. (Agrippa first published this work in 1532). _______________________________________________ the greek word is supposed to mean "health". in the notes there are mentions of Baphomet. to wit: 2. *old Church-men* -- The Knights Templars [sic], whose secret order was founded by the Burgundian Huges de Payns, and the French knight Godeffroi de St. Omer, for the purpose of guarding pilgrims on the road to the Holy Land. Baldwin I, King of Jerusalem, gave them a portion of his palace next to the mosque that was reputed to hae been part of the temple of Solomon. The Order quickly grew in wealth and influence. By the middle of the 12th century it had groups all over Europe. Because of its unique position it was able to amass an immense fortune trading between East and West. This attracted the avarice of Philip IV of France, and when his supporter Pope Clement V gained the papacy, the Templars were denounced as heretics. A man named Esquian de horian was brought forward to reveal the horrible secrets of the Order, which supposedly included spitting and trampling on the cross, eating roast babies (an old favorite with denouncers), and worshiping a graven image named Baphomet. God was renounced thrice with the words *Je reney Deu*. No doubt some part of the stories was true. A strange cross fertili- zation had taken place between East and West in the sealed vaults of the Templars, resulting in the resurrection of some modified form of gnosticism. One theory is that God was renounced in a mystery play, in which the initiate played a sinner soon to be converted to Christianity. But the real motives for the persecution were fear and greed. Public proceedings were begun at Paris in the spring of 1316. Philip seized the treasure of the French Templars and became as a result fabulously rich. The Order was suppressed everywhere, though not with the same severity as in France, and ceased to exist, at least officially. -------------------------------------------- Ibid., p. 115, note 2. ______________________ and According to Lewis Spence, it was revealed in 1818 that in the imperial museum of Vienna had been discovered several heads of Baphomet, the god of the Knights Templars [sic]: "These heads represent the divinity of the gnostics, named *Mete*, or Wisdom. For long time there was preserved at Marseilles one of these gilded heads, seized in a retreat of the Templars when the latter were pursued by the law." (Spence 1920, 203). --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., p. 237, note 22. _______________________ and ...The pentagrams around the hands are pointing downward, which in the occultism of the 19th century is a symbol of Satanism; however, Agrippa would not have made this distinction between the upright and inverted pentagram.... ----------------------------------------------- Ibid., p. 352, note 5. ______________________ when did these "19th century occultists" distinguish the point-down pentagram (or pentacle) as a "symbol of Satanism"? any idea who it was (i.e. cite some text or an author at least) or in what work? the spurious "Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy" has no pentegrams or pentacles or mentions of Baphomet that I can find. any other works by Agrippa that you meant? blessed beast! boboroshi Satanic Outreach Director Church of Euthanasia -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired Path: typhoon.sonic.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: doctorlao@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.satanism Subject: Re: The Baphomet Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:33:40 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <88vddl$t5t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.199.226 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Feb 23 01:33:40 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x34.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 199.174.199.226 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdoctorlao Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.satanism:140505 RMerciless wrote: >>Dr. Lao still has his copy of the Bessy book. >...and then Dr. Lao ran off on a tangent about medallions. >Damn those distracting Fookies! >Uhm, perhaps Dr. Lao can crack the old Bessy book of his >and tell us what, if anything, Bessy says about the Sigil, >it's source or it's origins. Ouch! A thousand pardons. Dr. Lao thought that information regarding the origins of the Baphomet in the early Church of Satan would be of interest. He forgot that it was common knowledge on this newsgroup. He forgets a lot these days, including where he left his glasses. The Bessy book reveals nothing about the Baphomet and very little about anything else for that matter. It was one of those coffee table occult books so popular around that time. As Dr. Lao understands it, the Baphomet on the cover of Bessy book was the first to appear in exactly that configuration. From that was born the CoS version. That isn't to say that it didn't appear earlier in other forms including words within the circle like "SAMAEL" and LILITH." Dr. Lao The Circus of Dr. Lao http://www.angelfire.com/co/doctorlao/index.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. Path: typhoon.sonic.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.nokia.com!news1.nokia.com!news2.nokia.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Marko Ronkainen" Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.mythology,alt.satanism References: <38ae54db@news.nwlink.com> <88p1v3$gio@bolt.sonic.net> <38B0BEBD.2356FAAB@socket.net> <88r5oi$s8f$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: The Baphomet Lines: 33 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:16:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.228.50.25 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@nokia.com X-Trace: news2.nokia.com 951315410 131.228.50.25 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:16:50 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:16:50 EET Organization: Nokia Xref: typhoon.sonic.net talk.religion.misc:309337 alt.mythology:57264 alt.satanism:140541 SVsite wrote in message <88r5oi$s8f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... >For the record - AGAIN? - the Baphomet, Hebrew letters, goat head and >pentacle, was designed as described in poem form "BAPHOMET" on VAd's >website. I also have a MINTED COIN of this, quite old. It's about the >size of a dime. Like the cross, the sigil itself can't be >copyrighted. It is a well known Templar sigil and in the book Doc >first saw it in, it was called a Templar sigil. But tho it was the >pentacle, goat and Hebrew letters, the DESIGN was different. THIS is >what's important - THE DESIGN. Let's get one thing straight, the Knights Templar never used "baphomet" as a sigil, not the goat's head in a pentagram, and not the Eliphas Levi drawing. Their sigil was two knights riding on a single horse with the words "SIGILLVM MILITVM XRISTI". The connection of Baphomet and the Templars remains to be proven, it was a plot used by the Pope and the king of France among other things that they were accused of, they claimed that the Templars worshipped "Baphomet", and idol with the head of a bearded man. This was never proven to be true. The drawing of Eliphas Levi is entitled "The Goat of the Withches' Sabbath" or something similar, it has been called the Goat of Mendez according to the (false) claim that the ancient Egyptian city of Mendes worshipped a goat (they actually worshipped the ram-headed god Khnum). The CoS sigil was probably inspired by the Levi drawing, I've also heard claims that it was copied from a cover of some book. I've also heard that they have copyrighted the entire sigil, the goat's head, the pentagram, the Hebrew letters that spell Leviathan and the words "The Church of Satan", and that the copyright only applies when all these are used together. - Marko