Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.music.black-metal Subject: Re: Devils in the Belfry (was selling a soul) Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 98 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <9k244p$q9@bolt.sonic.net> References: <1699867d.0107240544.3325c518@posting.google.com> Reply-To: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:55:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 996447304 208.201.224.36 (Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:55:04 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:55:04 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:27967 alt.satanism:181623 alt.music.black-metal:134150 50010729 VI! om Hail Satan! ordosclan (ordosclan@china.com): >>>> No, this is wrong. There is no soul to sell. Love was often >>>> considered "the soul", so when you lose "love" you enter a >>>> world of "need and desire" which many consider "hell". boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE): >> I happen to agree, which is why I say self your*self* to the Devil. brendamobley666@excite.com (Brenda Mobley): > What is a "self"? I seem to have several layers and zones of mind and > body. your entirety, your composite with which you identify. you talk about contracts with allies below. this is what I meant. radical dualism is not a necessary element of pacts with devils, demons, gods, whatever. >experiences still less important than itself, and "I" wouldn't have >the authority to barter it. I might contract it to allies for a time. there you go. >But before we smile and put ourselves on the pedestal of wisdom, how >do we know that our level of knowledge isn't just the same problem at >some higher plane? Does any honest person ever really give up a >concept for good and evil? If it's just a matter of finding a more >grown-up set of definitions, this whole process, as important as it >is, eventually finds completion. dunno. I never accepted a hard-and-fast 'good and evil' set of terms. my family was reticent to demonize and I saw quite a bit of that going on amongst the religious I encountered (which was one of the reasons I didn't become involved with younger -- now I'm more of an independent and don't mind the interaction, but still oppose the demonization). >>what does talking about dealing with the Devil have to do with NOT >>living for yourself? you seem to think it involves all those >>Christian horrors. consider the possibility that the Christian >>dualism-stories might not be accurate. there may be something >>behind those centuries of Faustian pact-making and Crossroads >>encounters that doesn't conform to quaint folk-tales about the >>dupability of the Devil or the Torturous Fate awaiting those with >>whom this being deals. > >The Christian dualism-stories are very accurate as a description of >the universe these young ex-Christians actually live in. They're not >going to find the reality - the more True - while they're still caught >up in this imaginary world. They want to prove themeselves wrong, and >that's when the cycle takes off. Their tendency to contradict >themselves would be laughable if it wasn't so invisible to the people >doing it. > >So - if you're one of these people and you sell your soul to the Devil there is more culture and history to it than just anti-Christianism. selling oneself to the Devil at the Crossroads is an old ritual activity that appears to have begun amongst African religious. it is Christian cosmology integrated to pre-Christian religion, ethics, and cosmology. sri catyananda did a bang-up job summarizing it: http://www.luckymojo.com/crossroads.html and http://www.luckymojo.com/devil.html comments on this material welcomed. >- you're pushed toward reality on one side, and grow closer to it. >The energies of what is wild inside you, and a connection with Nature, >have a chance to enter in. The clarity improves your life, you're >happier, stronger and more competent - and because of your own >classifications for things this makes you feel you've somehow floated >right back up to God. But now you're stressed again, trying to hold >onto your new level of "goodness." So you push it away again, >redefine a Devil further away than the one you had before, and go >through the cycle again. > >After a while you'll find where your real boundaries are, instead of >confusing them with the imaginary restraints on yourself that you >inherited from the Christian fantasy world. If you want a pact with a >real Devil it seems to me that it might help to burn out most of the >cycle first, so that when you finally meet a real Devil, you can >recognize it. Also, so that when you meet the kind of Devil with >which you *don't* personally want a pact, you can see that clearly >too. thanks for this thought. I'll roll it around in my mind for awhile and come back if I have a more thorough response. blessed beast! boboroshi@satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director, Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/) Satanism Archive: http://www.satanservice.org/ -- emailed replies may be posted ----- "sa avidya ya vimuktaye" ----- "that which liberates is ignorance" http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html hoodoo catalogue: send postal address to catalogues@luckymojo.com