Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.mythology,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.zen Subject: Re: God, Tao and Zen References: From: xiwangmu Reply-To: spam@yronwode.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 54 Message-ID: <5FPm8.6599$44.51434@typhoon.sonic.net> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1016841921 208.201.242.18 (Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:05:21 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:05:21 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:31968 alt.philosophy.taoism:96483 alt.mythology:69491 talk.religion.buddhism:208580 alt.zen:291255 50020322 VI alexandrbeetle@aol.com (Messiah): > ...where God and spirituality fits in with Tao and Zen?.... very general questions, as previous, and these indicate that you are newly approaching the subject. this is exciting! the New Mind, apprehending the cosmos! don't lose the Edge. ;> in this question you have begun as I suggested with the cosmology, asking about "God", which is quite important to Westerners but has a less important (Huang Ti, Celestial Emperor, sometimes called 'God' by outsiders, but probably not seen the same way by Taoists or by general Chinese religious) or even inconsequential role (Brahma, the Creator god, set the whole thing in motion and now has very little to do with any of our puny affairs, being a created being as well) to some Taoists and Buddhists. your secondary question about "spirituality" is *much* better, in that you begin to ask about human experience, what commonalities may link religions, and how religious cultures compare to one another as well as to the whole field. the easiest route for you may be to take what you *know* about spirituality and see if there are any others who have similar feelings, ask in comparison to what you know about, see how the religious of various cultures deal with the same things. spiritual expression varies across the globe. the experience that it inspires or that accompanies it seems to be comparable. some describe it as 'ecstatic'. the messiness and folk-origins of Taoism will at times upset the literati and 'philosophical Taoists' who eshew the religious side of the Taoist religious tradition (however fragmented by a number of years of Communist opposition). don't let this dissuade you from asking questions and looking for more. "Tao of Pooh" and Lao Tzu are all well and good, but there is a wealth of mysticoreligious worship and magic that also identifies as Taoist which should not be overlooked, even if it is castigated and smeared by those who oppose it. key terms for Taoist religion of which I'm aware: chang tao-lin, ko hung, celestial masters, taoist canon, taoist magic, talismans, hsi wang mu, kitchen god, jade emperor, eight immortals, nu kwa, fu hsi, yellow emperor, culture heroes and even 'fox spirits'! key terms for Taoist philosophy of which I'm aware: lao tzu, tao te ching, chuang tzu, liu tzu, hermits, unnamed tao, the sage, wu-wei, non-action, p'u, uncarved block, uselessness though it seems (still) to me that the discernment between these two "streams" is an error. ;> xiwangmu