From cat@luckymojo.com Mon Jun 26 11:21:20 2000 Return-Path: cat@luckymojo.com Received: from 209.204.136.83 (d24.nas21.sonic.net [209.204.136.24]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA21999 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:21:18 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3957A016.143D@luckymojo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:25:23 -0800 From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nagasiva@luckymojo.com Subject: Please archive: Taoism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO From: "Thomas" Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism Subject: Re: Religious and Philosophical aspects of the Laozi Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:43:03 +0200 Isabelle Robinet who is French [is] one of the leading scholars on religious Taoism. I've read her "Taoism, Growth of a Religion," not easy but worthwhile. [S]he explains that during the Warring States period philosophical Taoists were in competition with other schools like the Confucians to gain political power. Once China was united in 221 B.C. Confuciansim quickly became the only official philosophy. The Taoists had failed politically. So they tried to create separate Taoist communities and live like Taoists under the leadership of "Celestial Masters": religious taoism was born. Taoism failed as a political ideal and succeeded as a religion in Chinese history. My personal interest is in philosophical Taoism which ended in 221 B.C. (no Chinese would call himself a philosophical Taoist after that date), but Isabelle Robinet points to what happened after that, during the next 2000 years. A big question is though: Was philosophical Taoism mystical, involving meditation, etc.? Chad Hansen sees Lao Tzu as a pure philosopher. But Angus Graham writes in "Disputers of the Tao" that Lao Tzu practices "self-cultivation": "the shallow end" of which would be "relaxation", and the "deep end" would be "mystical illumination." Chuang tzu is clearly mystical, swims more in the deep end. Robinet writes: "his characters fall into ecstatic state, leaving their bodies "like dead wood" or "lumps of earth" and their hearts like "burned-out cinders." I've seen that there has been a lot of discussion on the ng about philosophical vs. religious Taoism. What Angus Graham and Isabelle Robinet have to say is that there isn't such a sharp separation between the two. Hello from, Thomas http://kongfuzi.chinesephilosophy.net