Path: ultra.sonic.net!news From: jake@kiblah.demon.co.uk (jake stratton-kent) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.divination,alt.magick,alt.occult,alt.non.racism Subject: Re: English Qaballa and Racist Agendae (was Re: Gematria and ...) Date: 31 Dec 1998 12:43:44 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 154 Message-ID: <76gnm0$siq@bolt.sonic.net> References: <199812292047.MAA02439@bolt.sonic.net> Reply-To: jake@kiblah.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: bolt.sonic.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:15072 alt.divination:13134 alt.magick:130495 [sent to hara (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) in private email on 12/30/98] In message <199812292047.MAA02439@bolt.sonic.net>, hara writes >49981229 IIIom > >shalom alechem, my kin. 93 Tyagi, here is a reply for you, or for the list, as you please. Some of this has been on my mind of late anyway. BTW You may want to check out the eq-list if only to see what you make of it. There is tons of hardcore occult stuff on it, and AFAIK there is nothing like it going on anywhere else. > >jake@kiblah.demon.co.uk (jake stratton-kent): ># Old style kabbalah generally involved interpretation of (Hebrew) Holy ># Books, in this 'Aeon;' the Holy Books are in English, and so we are ># accustomed to speaking of 'English Qaballa'. > >here I put in on the other side of the issue, since nobody else is >helping me out with the more controversial (hehehe, I'll try to >understand this one way or another, and I know JSK can take it :>): > tee hee, oh yas! >but why call it 'English Qaballa'? why use the word 'Qaballa' at >all rather than coming up with a different name for it which will >avoid confusing cultural mystical identifications? > ;-) ok, and while we're at it, let's stop calling the Golden Dawn stuff 'qabalah'. Folks might easily think we mean 'Kabbalah', which is something utterly different. It is important to note that Kabbalah shares with EQ the element of textual exegesis so conspicuously absent from the GD system of similar name. ;-> I grant you that the EQ title is not terribly informative, it is not, IMO terribly misleading either. When folks ask what is meant by the term the exposition often includes the term 'Astrologically Timed Tantric Worship In English' and Tantra of course also has a strong 'alphabetic mystery' involving mantra etc. as well as a strong astrological element. This aside, no claim that EQ is an authentic branch of Kaula practice is implied by the 'A.T.T.W.I.E. gloss. > ># 666 is the value of the Square of the Sun, and of various Greek and ># Hebrew Names connected with the solar force. This far predates Crowley ># etc. Crowley associated the ideas Sun-Male-Phallus with each other, and ># 'Solar-Phallic' is a term he used fairly often. However Thelema is a ># 'broad church' and not all interpretations are 'Solar-Phallic'. > >isn't it true that Crowley's esoteric preferences tended to be the >solar-phallic, however? some of his 'esoteric' writings (degree instructions etc.) are, at least IMO. OTOH I personally don't believe the Class A literature shares these characteristics. When the Class A does promote the Solar- Phallus it is only as 'the visible object of worship' (this is readily establishable from in text ref's), thus (again IMO) the Solar-Phallic cult is an exoteric 'front'! > and doesn't this coincide rather pointedly >with the German (cf. Ordo Templi Orientis, whose secret documents >contain solar-phallic emphases along with Fraternitas Saturni - and alleged satanic groups who consider women 'brood mares'? Nothing connects to EQ there, such misogynistic male supremacy conflicts entirely with its basic tenets. The same is true as regards the Class A, IMO. AC's reception of AL precedes his involvement with the OTO, and most of the rest of the Class A originates before his real involvement with that order began. I agree that some aspects of neo- templarism in germany were proto-Nazi, I don't think the OTO were at that end of the spectrum - though overlaps did exist. Personally in that era I'd have had any known Prussian police spy shot on general principles. Church father or not. ;-) > and whose origin is German) mystical >ideas of race purity, aryan white supremacy, and a general attempt >to wipe out or appropriate everything Jewish? was Crowley one of >these people? not IMO, he made absurdly xenophobic statements on occasion - though often with a touch of pastiche at least in his in later years (mocking the values of middle England perhaps). >does he have a biggotted and, according to Eisler's >terminology, a 'Dominator' agenda? > AC was happy to be buggered by black men - this does not exclude him holding racist beliefs, but might make him unpopular with the KKK >if any of this is true, shouldn't we be careful about what to >accept from this author, shouldnt' his work be considered strongly >suspect and heavily biased in favor of gross evils? right along with Blavatsky and Lovecraft? > is it >possible that everything Crowley touched is subtlely neonazi Nietzchean on occasion, but though Nietzche's ideas were appropriated by the Nazis there is no doubt he would have despised the entire mindless collectivist bunch of 'em. As did AC, whose attitude to the Nazis was summed up in one patriotic jingoistic phrase 'Monty will hit 'em for six' >in character and his secret societies are nefarious mind- >numbing desecrators of human compassion and clear reason? > this has often been suggested - with such supporting evidence as AC's 'disciple' Fuller's invite to Hitlers 40th birthday - solely due to Fuller's status in the development of armoured warfare. Liddell Hart - another mechanised warfare pioneer - received a signed picture from Guderian, a commander of the Panzerwaffe. No sensible historian would suggest that Liddell Hart was sympathetic to the German regime on that basis. There is no doubt in my mind that Liddell Hart and JFC Fuller were patriotic servants of the Crown, who despised the Nazis. Again, Spare was invited to paint for a Nazi client, and refused point blank. That the Nazis admired these men is besides the point, they all despised the Nazis. Hail Zhukov! 93 93/93 JSK. The Gnostic Alchemical Church of Typhon-Christ http://members.aol.com/kiblah1/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/7770/ eq-list-subscribe@makelist.com All events and institutions other than those portrayed in this Journal are fictitious -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html