Path: shell.portal.com!usenet
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (mordred)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi
Subject: [the AA; Was] Re: Its been great
Date: 5 Jan 1995 16:20:27 GMT
Organization: Portal Communications (shell)
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References: <3dv2qn$h4n@nkosi.well.com>
Reply-To: heidrick@well.sf.ca.us (Bill Heidrick)
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[from alt.magick.chaos: heidrick@well.sf.ca.us (Bill Heidrick)]

93

Joseph Max.555 (max@atticus.com) writes:

>Hey, Bill - you're the "magickal order" guru who lurks around these 
>parts; maybe you can shed some light on some of the stuff that has been 
>bandied about lately.

"Guru"?  Isn't that a shaggy African antelope with cow horns that prays
to an Egyptian goddess?  Please!  I'm just a bit overweight.  My hair
is not much past shoulder length, and I have a more varied set of grunts.

>First off, what's your take on the A:.A:.? Is it as fractional and 
>schismed as I think it is? How many "true" A:.A:.'s are out there
>these days?

A.'.A.'. has about three or four continuing lineages through folks of
less than formal adept status -- directly back to Crowley otherwise.
The Crowley-Wolfe-Sr.Meral line is one.  There is an Achad line.
The Crowley-Germer line overlaps Sr. Meral and continues to Motta.
On Motta, it spreads out again to a number of individuals, some apparently
unable to separate O.T.O. from A.'.A.'. -- rather a bad sign.  The
McMurtry line is still active, but not particularly accessible.  There
may be others, including a possible Windram or F. Bennett line that is
not known to survive, but may.  A lot of the problem comes out of the
"cell" nature of A.'.A.'. plus the failure of central records after
Crowley and Germer died.  There may or may not be an Islandic line
derived through G. York.  Most A.'.A.'. groups are made up out of
reading published works and a limited circulation of MS materials.
It's not for me to say what's what, but I will say that one of the Motta
lines is pretty good.  There are a few ok lines, going on performance;
but most A.'.A.'. representations are unadulterated crap.  Crowley
called the gods to witness his attainments on his Liber 185 pledges,
and there is no reason for anyone to abstain from doing that.  However,
asking for excessive money or excessive (any direct) advertising sucks.
Doing it on your own without a lineage means you can't claim to be
recognized outside your own circle of students.  For that matter, unless
there is some public benefit, claiming to be at Tipheret or above is a
foolish exercise in self-defeating pomposity.  Crowley's public claims
are justifiable in the sense that he was setting forth something
that he innovated -- that necessitated publicity.  Even so, it's
not a safe thing to tout.

>And this "women are the vessels" bit - was that phrase something that 
>actually escaped the Master Therion's lips at some point?

Pretty much.  Crowley had problems with his mouth when it came to sex
and race.  He was ahead of his times, but radical then is conservative
now in many social areas.

>Are these persons babbling some kind of 
>Thelemic doctrinare tenent of importance?

Yes, but the sexual metaphor is inappropriate, undesirable and misleading.
Crowley distinguishes two types of souls, a hollow one and a centered one.
These ideas cognate to Nuit and Hadit, but the female and male association
is fraught with problems.  Crowley had a human view of woman as something
like "party, secretary and mother".  That's every bit as bad as "field,
house and bush" applied to Afro-american.  Most of his ladies didn't stand
for this nonsense, but occasionally they did humor him.  You need to filter
and adapt everything, Crowley included.  There's meat in the nut, but
don't eat the shell.

93 93/93
Bill Heidrick