From server@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Thu Feb 16 21:55:46 1995 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (root@nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA03156 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:55:45 -0800 Received: from nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (nosferatu.cas.usf.edu [131.247.31.155]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA01249 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:55:43 -0800 Received: (server@localhost) by nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id BAA22551; Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:16:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:16:36 -0500 Message-Id: <950217001911_23970492@aol.com> Comment: Discussion of Magick in general Originator: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Errors-To: sarkis@luna.cas.usf.edu Reply-To: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Sender: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: BHeidrick@aol.com To: Subject: Re: Martinism + OTO etc Status: RO 93 Martin, >clear up the relationship between >the Caliphate OTO, the OTOA, l'Ordre Martiniste, the Gnostic Church, and >the A+P Rite Memphis+Misraim? No two people I've asked about this have >given me remotely the same answers. Pandora's box. Here's a very brief outline, less than a skeleton, more than a can of worms: There are at least two, probably three, surviving Martinist orders, one connecting to Papus. Papus had contacts real or imagined to earlier Martinist orders. AMORC received Martinism via the Papus line. AMORC got Memphis+Misraim via O.T.O. O.T.O. got Memphis+Misraim via Yarker. Martinism bred the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light, the Luxor variant of which became O.T.O. After Crowley became O.H.O. of O.T.O., there was a threat of discontinuance of the AMORC M+M charter, so Lewis went and got another one. Papus joined O.T.O. under Reuss, bringing the Gnostic Catholic Church into O.T.O., splicing in a Utrecht line consecration later and adding that to the O.T.O. Crowley called the result Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, while under Reuss, and continued it after he became O.H.O. of O.T.O. O.T.O.A. operated under Krum Heller in South and Central America, but did not initiate anyone into O.T.O. and did not continue under one head (several were appointed by Krum Heller for different regions --- according to Parzival Krumm Heller, son of the founder). Krum Heller Sr. was chartered by Reuss and had friendly relations with Crowley. Krumm Heller operated O.T.O.A. chiefly as a Gnostic Catholic Church and Rosicrucian order, favoring AMORC for a time but later shifting to Clymer. The O.T.O. continued after Crowley under Karl Germer. After Karl Germer, Grady McMurtry became the head of O.T.O. After McMurtry, the O.T.O. continues under Frater Hymenaeus Beta (who prefers that his private name not be used in this complex situation, as who can blame him ... :-) ). There is a very large amount of additional information, but please limit any questions you want me to answer on this theme to short segments at a time. These things are as cross-connected as a wicker basket. General views are hard to get without whiplash. 93 93/93 Bill Heidrick