From server@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Wed Sep 13 20:01:57 1995 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA02223 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:01:55 -0700 Received: from nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (nosferatu.cas.usf.edu [131.247.31.155]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA20773 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:01:53 -0700 Received: (server@localhost) by nosferatu.cas.usf.edu (8.6.11/8.6.5) id XAA01190 for tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:04:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:04:04 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: sarkis@luna.cas.usf.edu Reply-To: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Originator: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Sender: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu Precedence: bulk From: Bill Heidrick To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com Subject: Re: No Guts No Glory (Was Re: Law of the land...) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Discussion of Magick in general Status: RO 93, Hsi Wang Mu asks: >| There is, to my knowledge, no official ruling as to what one does on >| one's own time, within or without the OTO context. > >I think this is false. I heard a rumor (thus possibly false) that one or >more members have been tossed out of the Order due to felonious convictions. >I.e. if one is a criminal on one's own time (robbing banks being a good >example here), then one cannot remain a member of the OTO. Can someone >verify this? Drug and alcohol abuse isn't grounds for bad report, suspension or expulsion in O.T.O. unless it takes place at O.T.O. locations/events or leads to harm. It's technically contrary to the rules if a member above a certain degree submits him or herself to this or other mechanisms whereby free will can be impaired; but in practice that can only be assessed by very obvious things like disruption of a gathering or injury to someone. "Victimless" crimes are generally considered in that regard by O.T.O. Theft, serious lies and violence are taken to be contrary to good report and Liber OZ in most instances. Unless it's something pretty obvious, a complaint is usually required to be made by a member or nonmember against someone who does these things. Acts of victimization can lead to expulsion. All in all, with about 2,700 members at present, O.T.O. has expelled aprox. 20 members in the last fifteen years. Suspensions are a bit more complex, but there are several members currently suspended for D&D at meetings (not Dungeons&Dragons, Drunk&Disorderly) -- normally after some effort to get them to detox and a violated request to stay away for a while. 93 93/93 Bill Heidrick, TG OTO