Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated Subject: Re: The Purpose of Ritual Mag Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Date: 24 Oct 1995 15:50:35 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 55 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Approved: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com Message-ID: <46jqjr$ss2@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: <468hbt$6io@maureen.teleport.com> <8B38275.10490020C4.uuout@ais-bbs.org> <46hg0o$9j9@nkosi.well.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.magick.tyagi:4708 alt.magick:55754 alt.magick.moderated:183 ky951024 heidrick@well.sf.ca.us (Bill Heidrick) writes: |I do find A.C.'s definition of Magick to be so general as to be inadequate |as a definition. It is anything but concise. Neither "Will" nor "Change" |nor "Conformity" is adequately pinned down, and we've seen from this |discussion that "Occur" is not free from questions either. Very little is |excluded from the definition. First, let's look at what we're discussing: "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." (_Book Four_) I think that Science and Art allow us to make some very specific assumptions about this definition. Science and Art are carried out by humans or anthropoidals (gods, Mother Nature, whatever). We're talking some sort of consciousness here, directing the event. That is, Magick is what is called a 'discipline' that may involve quite specific techniques that have quite intentional results. Of what 'Change' may mean we are more limited to pin things down, but I think that the capitalization is an important key to coming to grips with Crowley. I'd say that this 'Change' indicates to me that it is a structural, verifiable and lasting transformation. It is not superficial, illusory or (usually) transitory. How this Change may 'occur' is rather straight forward given the interpre- tations above (if not, please point this out!). 'Will' is a more complex nut to crack, and that it is capitalized again is an indicator to me that Crowley wished to imply the truee will, this being, in individuals, a subset or microcosm of any force which may direct the univeral flux. Thus we are able to say that this is the Will of God, the true will of the mage, etc., and they aren't different from one another. Thus the whole could be rephrased as Crowley has done in several other places in _Book Four_, for example. In fact, I'd suggest that such a compilation would be *necessary* to understand the man's intent when using these quite specific words. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nagasiva -------- Crowley admitted falsifying his own diaries in regard to the method and writing of Liber AL, changing an earlier story in later publication. Bill Heidrick -- | ^ ** CC public responses to email ** |\ | | |\ /|\ ------------------------------------------------ | \ |\ | |/ | TRY : http://www.portal.com/~tyagi/nagasiva.html | | \| | | | | |