From thelema93-l-owner@bitsy.hollyfeld.org Wed May 1 13:36:23 1996 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA06183 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 13:36:23 -0700 Received: from bitsy.hollyfeld.org ([198.70.189.30]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA16099 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 13:36:17 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA06328 for thelema93-l-outgoing; Wed, 1 May 1996 16:22:31 -0400 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (root@nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06324 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 16:22:21 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA14648 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 13:19:16 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id NAA05056; Wed, 1 May 1996 13:19:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:19:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199605012019.NAA05056@jobe.shell.portal.com> To: thelema93-l@HOLLYFELD.ORG Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.chaos,alt.magick.order,alt.magick.sex,alt.thelema,alt.mythology,talk.religion.newage,alt.freemasonry,alt.folklore.urban,alt.evil,alt.christnet,alt.sufi Subject: Order Pretentions and Claims (Was Re: New O.T.O. founded!) References: <4lg0ja$gk2@crl.crl.com> <4lljjh$fls@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4lo6hf$rs3@news.acns.nwu.edu> Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.order,alt.mythology,talk.religion.newage,alt.freemasonry,alt.folklore.urban,alt.evil,alt.christnet,alt.sufi From: tyagi@HOUSEOFKAOS.ABYSS.COM (xiwangmu) Reply-To: tyagi@HOUSEOFKAOS.ABYSS.COM (xiwangmu) Sender: owner-thelema93-l@HOLLYFELD.ORG Precedence: bulk reply-to: thelema93-l@bitsy.hollyfeld.org Status: RO 49960501 (cc'd to Thelema93-L) Do as you please my fraternal brother, wabehun@merle.acns.nwu.edu (William Behun) wrote the following in response to the Jason/Bill bash: B Heidrick (bheidrick@aol.com) (writing about what I could not tell): |>| distorted and contrary to fact. This is simply an example of people |>| failing to recognize their own will(s), Jason Lambdin wrote: |>Oh, everybody fall to your knees and thank God that Bill knows everyone's |>Will. How utterly pretentious and authoritarian can you get? by itself, this is beauteous. it illumines a disputation of the facts (Bill being able to ride his own authority regarding the Order there) and calls into question the notion of determining when another can determine someone's ('true') will, which Frater Heidrick appears to imply (he's done so before this I think) But Frater Ad Dexteram (Behun) chimes in and so I shall do my best to oppose him and defend the younger stranger from his harshness (:> Revolutionary is a fun role): Frater Ad Dexteram: |How utterly pretentious and authoritarian can you get? I do not see the pretentiousness here. How is it, my brother, that Bill or any other may determine what is the will of another? Are there sure- fire tests or common guidelines? Perhaps a lesson is in order? |How about founding an organisation and claiming all sorts of lineages |for it just because one cannot work within a system where one is not |in total control, Preposterous! This was the method of the sages of old! Look to this EVIL publication, laying claim to connections with grandiose and pretentious, mystical, wisdom-gifting societies of extraordinary status, and connections to information and knowledge quite beyond its abilities to obtain except in regards imaginative deception. It spoke of itself as: --quot ...a body of initiates in whose hands are concentrated the wisdom and the knowledge of the following bodies: The Gnostic Catholic Church The Order of the Knights of the Holy Ghost The Order of the Illuminati The Order of the Temple (Knights Templar) The Order of the Knights of St. John The Order of the Knights of Malta The Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light The Holy Order of the Rose Croix of Heredom The Order of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch The Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry (33 degrees) The Rite of Memphis (97 degrees) The Rite of Mizraim (90 degrees) The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry (33 degrees) The Swedenborgian Rite of Masonry The Order of the Martinists The Order of the Sat Bhai and many others of equal merit, if of less fame.... It does not include the A.'.A.'., with which august body it is, however, in close alliance. It does not in any way infringe the just privileges of duly authorized Masonic Bodies. 2. The dispersion of the original secret wisdom having led to confusion it was determined by the Chiefs of all these Orders to recombine and centralize their activities, even as white light, divided in a prism, may be recomposed. It embodies the whole of the secret knowledge of the Oriental Orders; and its chiefs are initiates of the highest rank, and recognized as such by all capable of such recognition in every country in the world. In more remote times, the constituent originating assemblies of the O.T.O. included such men as: Fohi Hippolytus Laotze Merlin Siddartha Arthur Krishna Titurel Tahuti Amfortas Ankh-f-n-khonsu Percivale Herakles Mosheh Orpheus Odysseus Vergilius Mohammed Catullus Hermes Martialis Pan Apollonius Tyanaeus Dante Simon Magus Carolus Magnus Manes William of Schyren Basilides Frederick of Hohenstaufen Valentinus Roger Bacon Bardesanes Jacobus Burgundus Molensis King Wu Ko Hsuen Christian Rosenkruetz Osiris Ulrich von Hutten Melchizedek Paracelsus Khem Michael Maier Menthu Jakob Boehme Johannes Dee Francis Bacon Sir Edward Kelly Andrea Thos. Vaughan Robertus de Fluctibus Elias Ashmole Chau Comte de Chazal Saturnus Sigismund Bacstrom Dionysus Molinos And recently: Wolfgang von Goethe Friedrich Nietzsche Sir Richard Payne Knight Hargrave Jennings Sir Richard Francis Burton Karl Kellner Forlong Dux Eliphas Levi Ludovicus Rex Bavariae Franz Hartmann Richard Wagner Cardinal Rompolla Ludwig von Fischer Papus (Dr. Encausse) The names of women members are never divulged. It is not lawful here to disclose the name of any living chief. It was Karl Kellner who revived the exoteric organization of the O.T.O. and initiated the plan now happily complete of bringing all occult bodies again under one governance. The letters O.T.O. represent the words Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Temple of the Orient, or Oriental Templars), but they have also a secret meaning for initiates. 3. The Order is international, and has existing branches in every civilized country of the world. 4. The aims of the O.T.O. can only be understood fully by its highest initiates; but it may be said openly that it teaches Hermetic Science or Occult Knowledge, the Pure and Holy Magick of Light, the Secrets of Mystic attainment, Yoga of all forms, Gnana Yoga, Raja Yoga, Bhakta Yoga and Hatha Yoga, and all other branches of the secret Wisdom of the Ancients. In its bosom repose the Great Mysteries; its brain has resolved all the problems of philosophy and of life. It possesses the secret of the Stone of the Wise, of the Elixir of Immortality, and of the Universal Medicine. Moreover, it possesses a Secret capable of realizing the world-old dream of the Brotherhood of Man." _Liber LII: Manifesto of the O.T.O._, by L. Bathurst IX'; found in _Equinox III:10_, Edited by the Caliph of US OTO, Rex Summus Sanctissimus, Frater Superior, Hymenaeus Beta; Samuel Weiser, 1990; pp.153-5. _________________________________________________________________ Frater Superior noted: "The *Manifesto* provides a concise summary of the various threads of initiatic tradition that make up the O.T.O. It was first published from Boleskine *circa* 1912 E.V., and reprinted in *The Equinox* III(1)(Detroit: Universal, 1919). - H.B." I cannot understand why you might castigate people for associating fantasy with their history. It has been a predominant feature in most cultural affairs (esp. occult and religious) for the bulk of human existence, and may have very important personal and societal functions. |and then ripping off another group's name and claiming the first group |in invalid? I think that takes the cake, personally. Ever heard of the Argentina Ashram (AA)? The Order of the Sliver Star (SS)? The Order of the Rosy and Crux(RC)? The Order of the Gelded Dog (GD)? Ever examined the history of the usage of these ordernames? Of your *own* Order? (I haven't except tangentally). Perhaps we might coordinate on this (contact me privately if you've interest). |93 93/93, because after all, the Law is for All. E6/6/6, casting the Law upon the ground and trampling it like it deserves, because love is the law, free love, right now! xiwangmu