From tyagi@bjt.net Sun Nov 17 06:30:52 1996 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA23939 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 06:30:48 -0500 Received: by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA10813; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:23:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:23:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199611171023.CAA10813@kudonet.com> To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Subject: 9611.chnznac.tn From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Status: O >Path: kudonet.com!kudo!tyagi >From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333)) >Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.divination >Subject: Choronzon/Beast/Babalon, Crowley and Dee >Followup-To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.divination >Date: 17 Nov 1996 00:38:30 -0800 >Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services >Lines: 216 >Sender: tyagi@bjt.net >Approved: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com >Message-ID: >Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333)) >NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo.kudonet.com >Xref: kudonet.com alt.satanism:46151 alt.magick:76287 alt.magick.moderated:74 alt.magick.tyagi:8160 talk.religion.misc:215971 alt.divination:7310 [Orig-To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org (Thelema93-Listserv)] [technical difficulties; apologies for any duplication] 49961107 AA1 Hail Satan! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The word of Sin is Restriction. Rabbi Jeffrey Smith : # A current discussion on the ARCANA list has brought out the fact that no #one there knows where exactly Crowley got his idea of Chorozon as #Gaurdian of the Abyss. No one has come up with anything better than one #not very clear quote from Dee's Diaries, and a seemingly spurious quote #found in Kenneth Grant. I've gone looking for this connection too. one place I found it was in Dee's text that I have available to me (little): 2. The Casting Out of Adam. But Coronzon (for so is the name of that mighty devil), envying man's felicity, and perceiving that the substance of man's lesser part was frail and unperfect in respect his purer essence, began to assail man, and so prevailed.... _The Enochian Evocation of Dr. John Dee_, ed./transl. by Geoffrey James, Heptangle Books, 1984; p. 1. __________________________________________________________ oo, but what a find! when going through this (same) book (now!) for these references I found a cache that appears to yield more! here you go! THE KEY OF THE THIRTY AYRES [also cf Crowley's _Liber 418_] 30.1 MADRIAX *Madriax* Oh you heavens 30.2 DS *dspraf* which 30.3 PRAF dwell ... [now omitting the numbers and Ayre-names, I will only include here the verse that goes along with these Ayre-names unless I find it somehow relevant. n333] in the first Ayre, are Mightie in the partes of the Erth, and execute the Judement of the highest to you it is sayd, Beholde the face of your God, the begynning of comfort: whose eyes are the brightnes of the hevens: which provided you for the government of the Erth, and her unspeakable varietie furnishing you with a powr understanding to dispose all things according to the providence of him that sitteth on the holy Throne and rose up in the begynning saying, The Earth Let her be be governed by her parts and 30.51 CHRISTEOS *christeos* Let there be ... Division in her, that the glory of hir may be allwayes drunken and vexed in itself: Her course, let it ronne with the hevens: and as a handmayd let her server them: One season Let it confownd another: And 30.75 CHRISTEOS *Christeos* let there be ... no one Creature aequall with another The reasonable Creatures of Erth or Men let them vex and weede out one another: And the dwelling places, let them forget their names: The work of manand his pomp, let them be defaced: His buyldings let them become Caves for the beasts of the field: Confownd her understanding with darknes. For why? It repenteth me I made Man. One while let her be known, and another while a stranger Bycause she is the bed 30.131 ABABALOND ababalond of an Harlot, ... and the dwelling place 30.134 TELOCVOVIM telocvovim of him that is faln: [there is a note here from Dee: "30.134: Contraction of TELOCH-VOVIN or 'death'-'dragon'. In this case the fallen one is the great dragon Coronzon." n333] ... O you hevens underneath you, Let them serve you: Govern those that govern: Cast Down ["30.144 ... Cast Down" is here listed twice in what I believe to be an error. n333] such as fall: Bring forth with those that encrease: And destroy the rotten: No place let it remayne in one number: Ad and diminish untill the stars be numbred: ARRISE, MOVE, and APPERE before the Covenantof his mowth, which he hath sworne unto us in his Justice: OPEN the Mysteries of your Creation: And Make us partakers 30.181 IADNAMAD *Iadnamad* of undefyled knowledg. [there is a note here from Dee: "30.181: Contraction IAD-NAMAD or 'God'-'knowledge'." n333] Ibid, pp. 97-102. _________________ it seems to me this may well be the 'missing link' as regards the Crowley-spelling of 'Babalon', and it does rather directly connect your "Coronzon" (Crowley/Grant/et al's "Choronzon") with Satan, or the 'Dweller on the Threshold' as Grant is wont to call Hir. isn't there a long occult tradition of counting Satan as the Adversary and Revealer of Mysteries? I'd thought so, and Crowley goes as far as identifying his HGA with Satan, so there is reason to think that he may well have thought along these lines too. I would note, to stave off the protestations of those who must always say 'Not THAT Satan!', that Crowley does have something very specific in mind when speaking of Satan in this light, and doesn't appear to imply the conventional Christian Urban Legend (instead meaning something more esoteric and complex). #Either Crowley came up with Chorozon's special role all on his own, I honestly doubt this. I'll bet he got all or most of the data about Choronzon from other sources. for example, there is an apparent Jewish/Kabbalistic(?) tradition which I'm recompiling as I compose this (my files are now lost) that does appear to relate to this. it concerns the Woman of Whoredom, and her pairing with the Angel of Death. I rediscovered this again in Godwin's on a hunch: Transliterated Hebrew [rearranged] Ishah AShH Woman. 306 Isheth AShTh Woman of Whoredom; Demon of 1424 Zenunim ZNWNYNM Prostitution; Mother of Chioa, 864 the Beast (Samael being the father), or Samael and Isheth Zenunim together are considered to be Chioa; arch-demon corre- sponding to Binah (777). Chioa ChYWA The Beast, the union or off- 25 spring of Samael, Prince of Demons, and Isheth Zenunim, Demon of Prostitution; the arch-demon corresponding to Tiphareth (777). Sam SM Spice; drug; poison. 660 100 Samael SMAL "Poison of God"; Angel of 131 Death; the Prince of Demons, equated with Satan; in particular, the demon prince of Fire; husband of Isheth Zenunim, the Woman of Whoredom, the Demon of Prostitution, and the father of Chioa, the Beast; the husband of Lilith; Qlippoth of Hod; according to 777, arch- demon corresponding to Chokmah. _Godwin's Cabalistic Encyclopedia_, by David Godwin, Llewellyn Publications [!], 1989; pp. 44, 70, 106. ______________________________________________________________ note that this 777-orientation, which *Crowley* apparently derived, sets the Isheth Zenunim-Samael pair as Binah-Chokmah respectively, with Chioa, the Beast, somehow in Tiphareth (perhaps his identity in Christ-666 forming the initial contact with the Veil of Paroketh, before the Abyss and Da'ath). combining this with the text above in Dee, if 'Babalon' is the 'bed' or 'resting place' of the 'death-dragon', this seems to follow rather nicely on the theme of the 'Woman of Whoredom'-'Angel of Death' pairing and could easily have been the material from which Crowley derived his identification of Choronzon as the Dweller on the Threshold, Grant thereafter taking off with Shugal and the whole pig-dog Beastiality. for more information on Choronzon and pertinent quotes from Crowley, Grant, and Mather's _Kabbalah Unveiled_ on the matter, consult _Liber Nigris_ in the Shaitan directory of the Avidyana: ftp://ftp.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Avidyana/Shaitan/libernigris.fn Invoke me under my stars. Love is the law, love under will. I am I! nigris (333) tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to email ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cuckaracha Humana * * * --QQbqep07023.848217459/relay1.UU.NET-- -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to email ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cuckaracha Humana * * *